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Post by chopper doctor on Feb 12, 2008 11:52:40 GMT 1
joblo,
I agree, the cooler temps are a big advantage. In the summer it may hit the 90's but only for a day or two. These Canadian machines perform well throughout the year.
This machine has the OM457, I was quite disappointed with the 502 in the 870. We have not chipped a 502, but we may in the future. I would like to collect more info on that from people who have. Not all chip makers get it right, especially with the merc. Thats why we had to develop our own chips. Our biggest concern with using the chips in merc's was the elevated exhaust temps. Too much fuel cannot be added to this engine! You WILL lose turbo's.
I am curious to know what kind of performance can be expected from a chipped 502 in an 870. And which engine can withstand running in higher ambient temps? Have you had any problems with the six cylinders?
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joblo
Junior Member
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Post by joblo on Feb 19, 2008 5:56:11 GMT 1
No problems with the inlines so far. Those seem to be ok, but the one machine with it is still low hours, and not worked as hard as a chopper.
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Post by chopper doctor on Feb 19, 2008 12:50:22 GMT 1
Not worked as hard as a chopper? Then what is it in? I thought we were talking about a chopper.
Is there anything special done to the choppers to accommodate for the extremely high temps in your area?
Are the people in your area noticing any significant difference in performance between the six cyl. 870 and the 8 cyl. 870? We haven't been too impressed with the V8.
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joblo
Junior Member
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Post by joblo on Feb 20, 2008 3:57:52 GMT 1
Its in a big m2. We have run this motor in choppers as well but only up to about 700 hours. We have not had any trouble with this motor. The 502 now weare talking about something very different. I dont like that engine. We have had lots of trouble with it.
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Post by chopper doctor on Feb 20, 2008 10:38:36 GMT 1
What Kind of problems with 502?
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joblo
Junior Member
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Post by joblo on Feb 21, 2008 5:55:17 GMT 1
Turbo's, lots of them, injector tips, Early on injector pump problems, crank end play- with this problem we had on a particular machine it would burn anywhere from 1-3 gal of oil a day the whole time merc. said there was nothing wrong just change the crankcase breather box filter which we did a million times, they finally had to overhaul it when they had no more excuses about the play on the crank. I had to shut one off one time after it threw the connecting rod out on the ground but continued running, low hour motor. That was the only time we got good service from merc, but claas stepped in and made sure we had the new motor quick. The latest one was a camshaft bearing tht walked out of the cam journal to meet a new friend called lifter. They did not like each other so the new friend lifter deciced to lock itself away inside the block. No one we could find anywhere can bore the block in the lifter guide so the block is now a paperweight.
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Post by chopper doctor on Feb 21, 2008 11:52:59 GMT 1
Wow, that is scary! I will be sure to be watching for any of those signs in the 502's . We have seen nothing significant yet, but I'm sure the time will come. All I've have noticed is low power problems, this may only be the beginning. Do you know if Mercedes has resolved any of these issues?
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joblo
Junior Member
Posts: 30
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Post by joblo on Feb 22, 2008 5:16:02 GMT 1
The only problems that have been fixed is the injection pump (fixed by claas by adding the racor water seperator), And the issue of the turbos blowing oil out everywhere, which they blamed onthe crankcase breather filter, so they have changed that whole thing to the kind of funnel shaped filter which only needs service like once a year. I have been told by engineers in both Krone& Claas that Mercedes does not care at all because the chopper engine market is not even a blip on their radar.
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Post by chopper doctor on Feb 23, 2008 1:46:31 GMT 1
So much for product support! They can do better than that.
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Post by adamL on Feb 23, 2008 20:44:22 GMT 1
We have a 05 Lexion with a Cat and the 04 we had the year before also had a Cat. They said the Merc did not meet the emisions regs. Can you not get a Cat or something else in the choppers if you don't like them? I know that Claas and Merc are both German and have been working together for a long time, so surely Merc know what is expected of the motors. Would they (merc) jepodise(sp) the relationship. Sure the chopper market is a relatively small market, certainly compared to trucks, but Claas must take a resonable chunck of their off road engines.
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Post by chopper doctor on Feb 24, 2008 1:59:01 GMT 1
Yes, a Cat engine can be put into a Claas chopper. It's been done in California, but it is not a simple fit. I guess it runs pretty good.
I think I would stick with the Merc, Cat has had their fair share of problems too. The swap would probably be more trouble than it's worth.
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Post by adamL on Feb 24, 2008 14:36:58 GMT 1
is the trouble caused by engines working under ful load for prolonged periods and the engines need de-rating or do we just have too high expectations for engine reliablity? What I mean is, once in a while other parts of any machine will fail and we just fix them, but we expect engines to just run and run.
Are Merc having the same problems in other applications? My point about Cat engines was, if they supply the combines with another make of motor, could you specifiy a Cat/Cummins/DAF etc from new, does it have to be a Merc?
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Post by chopper doctor on Feb 25, 2008 3:45:40 GMT 1
I couldn't agree more. This would give the customer a choice of performance packages and possibly provide options that would work better in different geographic locations. As long as these engines are options in NEW machines.
I don't think we will ever see such a thing from Claas (unless they use Duetz or BMW or something).
Maybe someone will offer retro-fit kits for other engines? Who knows, I may be inclined to try something new in a Claas chopper if the situation arises. I am always looking for better performance, that's what I do.
To add to the original statement, adding more horsepower to your Claas chopper isn't always what is needed to enhance Performance. Reliability is also performance.
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Post by eppie on Feb 25, 2008 22:20:27 GMT 1
manufacturers produce a product to sell around the world, to anyone.
As with all performance mods, you dont have a "street machine" anymore, but have something that needs special maintenance, above the level of "just follow the maintenance schedule"
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Post by adamL on Feb 26, 2008 19:22:20 GMT 1
manufacturers produce a product to sell around the world, to anyone. As with all performance mods, you dont have a "street machine" anymore, but have something that needs special maintenance, above the level of "just follow the maintenance schedule" Chopper doctor and others on other fora seem quite confident in their work and keep saying how well their chips work, but I cannot imagine a time when I would even contemplate buying a secondhand vehicle or machine that was running anything other than factory spec fuel systems. My company vehicle has just come back from having it's fuel system overhauled, she was putting out exactly the advertised power and torque (it recovered like it was meant to too) that she was 5700 hours and 8 years ago prior to being tinkered with and is now putting the same power and toque out again, just without out the smoke and surging and long may it continue. |
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