A, B, C, D or E-brands?

[AgMachinery]

Robert Ratliff said his agco tractor is competing in the same class as john deere and caseih. MF is the 'value line' like New Holland. There is no other tractor that can compete with Fendt according to Ratliff.
So if Fendt is an a brand, JD, Agco, CaseIH are b-brands, MF and New Holland are c-brands what about Same, Valtra, Zetor or Deutz-Fahr...

[Woodbeef]

Lets try and cut through all of Ratliff's hype and marketing spin here!! If Fendt is an A I'd also rate Valtra,and Steyr there also. Deutz-Fahr I'd put in A-B .The rest of SD-F I'd say was B. Zetor is definately a C player. So what about Belarus? McCormick is on par price wise with CIH,so are they a B. Landini,and Kubota would be a C then.

I'd put Massey at B,myself. Maybe they are going to lessen the standard features and options for us over here. I'm also not sure about NH being a C also.

I do not really see much difference in options or prices between the Majors over here,except for the Fendt Vario. Fendt is most expensive,followed by Deere,once you get past these two CIH,NH,M/F,Agco are not much different in price. Valtra (who also has the most options available)is noticeably cheaper,along with Landini,and Kubota. Zetor,Belarus,Universal are all low priced alternatives,but not as cheap as they used to be.

[[e-mail]]

I dont think its fair to put the diff. brands into A, B, C aso. classes.
Contracters here in Denmark made an test some years ago, and it said that the real difference in cost/repair on the tractors is more up to the man on the machine, than the brand of the tractor. The test was made with tractors around 10 years old 6000-9000 hours.
MF, CIH, NH, Valtra, JD, Steyr, Renault, McCormick is on level. Belarus, Ursus, Zetor is lowprice, lowspec. and absolutely not as good sa the brands above. Fendt might be a little better, but the totaleconomy is not better....

The talk about Valtra being better than MF, Case.....NO NO NO, Valtra is good but not in the Fendt class.

Jesper

[Laapa]

I think Jesper just brought up one of the most important points to make when talking about brands. The man in the seat will always be the determining factor of how a machine performs, regardless of brand, price and level of sofistication. Not many farmers know how to use every function of every tractor they have.
And he's right about Valtra too. Good but far from Fendt! Best reasons to get them is Price and weight, both low.

[Woodbeef]

Guys,I definately agree with you on the loose-nut-behind-the-steeringwheel part!!

But as for Valtra not being up there on technology and a class A manufacturer......hhhmmmm......I beg to differ there!!!

I look at the total package,not just the shiny metal,gadgets,and gizmos.

Fendt does have some flashiness at the present time over Valtra (but wait till the S-series is out,and the styling trickles down)

Just look at the whole range from Valtra and what is available from them across the board. Valtra makes their own engines. What about the Eco-Power technology,and Sigma-Power? Or what about the Comprex-Wave Supercharger on the 1203? What about the HiTech system. Also look at the Mezzo transmission. Who else offers a turbo clutch,power shift,in-line shuttle,with a standard creeper box? Auto-control and it's versions,Twin-Trac on tractors from 75 hp to soon to be over 230 hp,the X-series. Do not forget the 1502 either,along with the Bi-Turbo,and H-800.

Valtra has and does alot more in house then Fendt!

All I'm trying to say is that Fendt is good,but so is Valtra. Is Fendt on a higher plane,even with the Vario,I say not higher, but more like equal along with Steyr.

[[e-mail]]

Hello Woodbeef.

I know that you are a big Valtra-fan, and your right on one point - Valtra, Valmet, Sisu or wharever they call them self these days makes good engines, and there where one of the first to offer electroniclink in the 05 series.
But the design of the Mezzo, Mega and High-Tec is old, and not very good for the driver, I also think the gearbox lacks a little compare to NH and JD. The weight is low, and that is often good, but just as often its not smart to have 200 hp on 5200 kg.
All in all the Valtra is a good tractor, but not more than averege - I`m NH fan - there are good as well, but not quite up were the Fendts are..

Jesper Denmark

[Woodbeef]

Hey Jesper,

I already agreed with you on the styling getting a bit long in the tooth. The S will be out soon,then we will see.


As for Fendt,take away the Vario,and what's left that is all that spectacular? I'm talking the regular ag-tractors now not the GT system and Xylon.

I've never seen or heard of a Fendt doing forestry duty either. Both Valtra and Steyr actively push this use for their tractors.

[Laapa]

It is interesting that Fendt offers a line of tractors whitout the Vario-tranny and a lot of gadgets (all the way up to 260 hp), it is still however quite a bit more expensive than the competition. More expensive than JD, CIH, NH, AGCO, SDF and the others, but a little less espensive than the Vario-line.
They must make money on them since they keep making them several years after the introduction of their Vario-flagships. I have never seen one though, all Vario is all you hear about.

I also have no doubt there are plenty of Fendts working in forrests, pehaps not the big ones though.

By the way, are all the Fendt models available in America or just the Varios?

[Woodbeef]

Only the 400,700,and 900 series are imported here. Probably because as you said the others are expensive for what you get.

The new 300 series does look interesting though. What does it have for a rear end,same as the old one?

[Laapa]

How about the Fendt toolcarriers? Seems to me they would be perfect for row-crop applications, lots more corn in the US than sugarbeets over here, and we get them.

[Woodbeef]

Not them or the Xylon,200,300,500 series. So far nothing but the flagship series. Will we ever get anything else........who knows for sure. Only time,and sales will tell.

[HPP]

Really too bad I didn´t get into this forum earlier. A lot of good topics that I´ve missed!
Can´t help but commenting on a few of the posts here:
- Who is offering more than Mezzo? Well, have a look at Fendt 800:s! 44/44-gearbox, 4-step powershift, creepergear, turboclutch etc., etc.
And by the way, Fendts are doing forestry-duties, both the little ones and the big ones. For example the so called "Hedeselskabet", some sort of state forestry association in Denmark are doing a lot of work with 900 Varios.
Laapa, you said that Fendt offers the "standard", non Vario-tractors up to 260 Hp. They don´t. The 824 is 230 Hp.
Then you say you haven´t ever seen one. We have som around here. An 822 is coming in as a trade-in around july. The customer bought a 926.
Then the more delicate questions above:
Is there more to Fendt than just the flashier new technique?
As far as I know only once there were some sort of statistics showing the differences in repaircosts between different tractor brands. The statistics were made by an insurance company in Sweden in the late -80:s. Compared to the average tractor the repair costs of the Fendt tractors were at 30 %. In this statistics JD came second, but were closer to the average tractor than to Fendt. At the bottom line this means that there is always a break even point when you calculate the purchase of a Fendt tractor. Due to the lower costs of repair and maintenance and the higher capitalcosts, you have to make use of the tractor a certain amount of hours per year. In Sweden, as the situation is here, you would normally find this brake even point at around 700 - 800 hrs per year. The benefit of the more modern technology is just a bonus!

[kenjar]

I don't know how Mr Ratliff can label his tractors A,B or C. I would agree that the Fendt has more features than MF or Agco, so it would be labeled as a premium product. The MF and Agco lines are the same, built at the same factories. Engines and paint are about the only differences between the two. If what Ratliff says is true, then the quality of the MF would be less.
What would he label the new Challenger line? A-?
How does he figure his classes, price or quality?
Just because something cost more doesn't mean it has more quality.

As far as the other brands, I would say Valtra, McCormick, and Deutz are onpar with the  three majors.

Zetor would be classed lower because of their price.

Why do we tend to put labels on things? If someone is satisfied with his brand or product, that should be enough.

[eppie]

Zetor has no full product range (anymore?) too. But who has a full product range? Fendt has no affordable low spec tractors. Even the 300's are loaded with electronica.

In my eyes, with no $ but [glow=red,3,300]Z[/glow] sign in them, Zetor is at the same level as Fendt, when you take all factors like  productivity, repair costs, lifespan, fuel use, compared to the ridiculous price of a Fendt.

The specific fuel consumption of a Zetor 10641, 236 G/kwh isn't much more than Fendt achieves.

[HPP]

OK, 236 g/kWh isn´t much more. Only about 20%.
Sorry Renze!