Horsch and Holmer in the US

[Laapa]

Are Horsch and Holmer available in the US? Looks like it in this pic.

www.farmphoto.com/homestead/message.asp?dsply=all&mid=4514

[leemsutton]

WOW,

Now thats what I call a drill. At 18 metres and travelling at about 12km/h thats going to drill/seed about 300-400 acres in a 12 hour day!

Amazing

Lee

[Woodbeef]

Hey Laapa,

Bosman might know more,but I think it was being demoed at the time of that picture. Phil from Opticrop(he's the guy that is resopsible for unleashing pudding on KainTuck)is the one who took the pic. Might try emailing him for some more info.  [e-mail]

[Red_Painter]

I saw a pull type Horsch air seeder in a large farmers yard on Sunday. He has tried out different air seeders over the last few years. Wish I had time to take a good look. I can't find pics of that model on their site. There must either be a distributor in the area or it is  be on trials here. It's the first  one  I've ever seen.

[[e-mail]]

I posted this question on the US board. One person said that he'd hate to drive it because of the NH3 tanks and if you blew a hose, you likely wouldn't see it. Another guy said that Horsch is using some North American type openers instead of German types - they're retrofitting it for the US market.

I guess it all comes down to my post a few months ago, about the Holmers, Vredo's and Xerions. Whether it is financially feasbile to own that machine. I guess if you can throw a grain buggy on it, and the fact that you have a few less tires running over the field, both for air seeding and for combining, you might be able to justify it. I kinda think that it would be along the same lines as the VFS system that Caterpillar has.

What did we conclude the price tag was on one of these machines? A new 4wd tractor is around $200,000 US.

Hey Redpainter - could you leave me your email address - I can't seem to find it through this website.

[Red_Painter]

Jon Bos, sent you an E-mail. Thanks for the intensive agriculture site. Took a quick look, but haven't had much time since we just finished seeding yesterday.
I also think I'm thinking along the same lines as you on cost effectiveness as far as special self propelled units like the Horsch. I can't see it being popular here unless there is some custom(contractor) seeding done, but I've never heard of such practices here. It may come in the distant future. With the large tractors ready for use, it seems that towed machines would be more cost effective and the road width here, in general, lends itself to using wider towed or drawbar equipment for transporting to other farms although going long distances would be better with self propelled units. I would think that makers of such units would be considering tracks for less compaction especially on prepared seedbed.
I'm not sure I'm aware of the VFS you talked about Cat having.

[eppie]

If that machine isn't used out of the season, it would need our whole corn land to put that thing away....

[Laapa]

Red Painter, check out

www.cat.com/industry_solutions/agriculture/01_new_equipment/_products/vfs.html
for info on Cat VFS system.

Hmmm, could not the Horsch toolcarrier-vehicle (Terra Variant) and seedtank be used with another type of tillage/seeder unit such as a Concord etc.?

[Red_Painter]

I wonder what is being sown in the picture or where in  South Dakota the unit is operating. Is it pulling a Concord CIH hoe drill unit? I can't get a good picture of the Concord on the CIH site to compare and am not familiar enough with them to tell. It seems so impractical compared to traditional practice. A drill that wide would be used only in open country where four wheel drives would be common and could do the job with a trailed air tank though it isn't as long and awkward as trailing an airtank.

[Red_Painter]

Laapa, I think you're right. It could be used for all kinds of uses. Like I mentioned in the above post before I read yours, it may well be a Concord in the picture.
The only thing that I would see limiting it's use in North America would be that with alot of the equipment that already exists, it would probably be more economical to use trailed equipment behind a four wheel drive or Challenger rather than buy another power self propelled power unit with limited jobs it could do.
 If farms get so large that such specialty equipment could be used alot of hours on a farm, then it would be accepted. It may well be the future here as time and agricultural practices evolve.
I think that in places in Europe, where farmers in many areas grow a greater variety of crops, and a few places like California where there is a great variety of different crops in an area,  and the unit could be used more often for different operations such as seeding, hauling vegetable harvesters, operating forage equipment, hauling grain to the truck, or there is alot of contract work, it would work better. Kind of like Jon Bos was saying "if you could put a grain buggy on it...you might be able to justify it."
To work better in North America or Europe, I would desire tracks to cut down on  compaction.
I must admit that I am prejudiced towards using tractors. Eliminating tractor use takes the romance out of farming for me though at times it's more efficient when specialty machines have enough use to justify their existence.

[[e-mail]]

Replies to previous posts......

First of all, my reasoning as to why I do think that the Holmer Terra-Dos has some potential in North America. Caterpillar has its tracks system, saying that it has lower ground pressure, compaction, etc. Well the Holmer Terra-Dos has off-trac steering. All 4 wheels can run in different paths. So that means that it is on the same concept of reducing compaction - by spreading out the load width-wise instead of length wise (like Caterpillar does).

Second of all - by putting a machine (air seeder tank, grain buggy, etc) on the back of the Holmer Terra-Dos, you are taking out at least one set of axles in your machine. You are putting the weight of the machine onto the tool carrier. You would maximize traction, and reduce compaction. There was an article about this sort of thing a few years ago in FARM SHOW. A guy bought a new Caterpillar tractor, and basically rebuilt it - moved the cab forward, put a 5th wheel hitch on it, etc, and then bought a new Seed Hawk air seeder to put on the "gooseneck". He claimed that weight transfer was better - I think that this idea is similar

I think that you will see more and more interest in this machine in North America within the next 5 years. Don't forget, most 4wd's have limited uses too. If you can use the Terra Dos for seeding and grain buggying, thats better then nothing at all.

REDPAINTER - the air seeder part of the machine is a Horsch air seeder. It is German made, and it is being imported into North America. You likely could put Flexi-coil or Bourgault air seeders on the back of the thing too, but Horsch and Holmer have some sort of a partnership, and they're components would fit better together.

RENZE - you'd be surprised how small some of these 50+ foot air seeders can fold into. Search around the Flexi-coil site - www.flexicoil.com - some of their air seeders are only 15ft wide in transport. Look for the 7500 SLIM models.

Its an interesting concept, to say the least.....

[eppie]

HA !!

Jon Bos: You're right, I didn't expect those machines to fold up so closely...

When the Dutch Zetor importer showed a 3 meter wide trailed direct sowing machine from the Czech manufacturer Farmet, the press wrote that it was not suitable for Dutch conditions, because of the manoeuvrability. (for a 3 meter machine??!!)

We sure will never see a Terra Dos in the netherlands...

P.S. Farmet builds also 6 m wide direct sowing machines, with Accord/Kverneland seeding system. They might be of interest for North American market.
www.farmet.cz

[[e-mail]]

Hey Renze, you crazy dutchman. I was born in Holland too - I moved over here when I was young, but I do remember Holland, and how small the farming is there. Nothing is bigger then 15ft at the most, and it all has to fold up to under 8ft in transport (sorry, I now speak in ft and bushels).

Here, we aren't as "wide open" as the US midwest and great plains, but we still have wide machines. We run 15-20ft wide over the road without thinking about it, and sometimes even 30ft wide machines.

We are familiar with the Accord seeding machines. We were one of the first in North America to use them extensively as sugar beet planters. Everyone else uses corn planters for their sugar beets, but we LOVE our Accord. And so do the people who we custom plant for.

Cool link with the Farmet machinery. We have lots of choices here, but you never know... The superstructure carrier looks a lot like the Agchem Terragators, but there are differences.

[eppie]

Jon Bos:

When you was young, you were smaller, so the world seemed bigger. If you come back to the Netherlands now, you will laugh even more...  <br>
So over there, most people use corn planters to drill sugar beet??

If they were contractors in the Netherlands, they will be crucified if they did it here!!

[Laapa]

I don't really see how "limited use" would be an argument against the Terra-Variant (Verdo etc. type of machines), seeing TerraGators and such vehicles are used widely in the US. I figure everything you can do with a Terragator (fertilize, spray, lime, manure) can be done with a TerraVariant. To me such mahines could be used as more versatile TerraGators.

Red_Painter, I think CNH has stopped production of the Concord Drills in favor of red-painted Flexicoils.

I've heard of a guy who has a big seedhopper on a TerraVariant and uses it to pull a Rapid-drill. The hopper on the TerraVariant is unloaded (on-the-go) into the seedtank on the drill by an auger.

Renze, I thought such machines would be used in the Netherlands. From reading Profi etc. I got an impression of a widespread soilcompaction-paranoia on large farms and wide tyres as a universial answer. Aren't the European TerraGator headquarters in your Country?