|
Post by Farmer from Finland on Sept 23, 2003 14:19:17 GMT 1
JH,If you take tm or m base version with conventional clucth,then tranny is exactly the same as latest Winner have.Basicly,only difference is that Winner have 4 gears area gear,M/TM only 3.
Maintenance guy told that to me,and i looked TM base version also in Smitfield show.
Range command and power command are new versions for M/TM...
FFF
NOTE,when i say latest winner that means year 94,just before Winner 'end'.Fiat made some small changes to gearbox for year 94.But this is impossible see outside...
|
|
|
Post by pquinn on Sept 23, 2003 16:20:23 GMT 1
Winner series was available here in Ireland until 96 have seen a few 96's around.
|
|
|
Post by G70 on Sept 23, 2003 18:01:25 GMT 1
The transmission housing in the Range Command versions should be of old "Winner" heritage. That means it was fiat who did the innovation on that job... That leaves the cab and the engine for Ford, but then again there is some differences between the engines used in TS and M/60, TM series. The fuel pump in the TS is different to the one used on the M/60, TM which should be the same as on the Winner Well even the cabs have big differences in construction. Not only in placement of controls, but also in the frame.
|
|
|
Post by eppie on Sept 23, 2003 19:40:55 GMT 1
What exatly was the last Winner's tranny ?? i thought when it was introduced, it had a 16/16 with an optional 2 speed powershift or an optional 5th road gear - for 40kmh, not 50km/h !! I really dont know all the Italian, and italian based models. Didn't the M/60 series came out with 6 speed semipowershift with 3 ranges or an 18 speed fullpowershift ?? I have never heard of more basic M series tranny options...
|
|
|
Post by Farmer from Finland on Sept 24, 2003 6:15:58 GMT 1
It's new thing to me that some Winners are sold 96,maybe manufacturing continues 95 also,anyway latest Winner arrived here end of 94...
Renze,as much i remember and know Winner gearbox choices was following: 16/16,20/16,32/16 and with creeper 64/32 Also some 24/12 are maybe made...
16/16 is base version 32/16 and 24/12 with HiLo(one step powershift) 20/16 is equipped with 5:th main gear,in some markets speed 50 km/h...
My F115 is 64/32,so i have HiLo and creeper...
Originally all versions was available when manufacturing started.Here,Finland,near the end we had only two winner types F115 and F140 and also only one possible Gearbox version 64/32. I'm second owner for my own tractor and it have worked well until that time....let see...
FFF
|
|
|
Post by Aidan1 on Sept 24, 2003 13:07:03 GMT 1
FfF, the place I worked was waiting on an F140 from March 95 till it was eventually delivered in August. Apparently they had some problems in the factory. Do know that they continued making them until early 96 though. As delivered it was the top spec tractor available, 24/12 with Hi/lo, electronic dash, aircon. But there was no option for the 5th road gear in Ireland at that stage (early 95 I suppose).
F140 was a nice tractor, but a little gutless. It was great for PTO work (NH D1210) but not so good ploughing or pulling a furrow press. Apparently the smaller ones were better though (comparatively speaking).
|
|
|
Post by pquinn on Sept 24, 2003 19:46:48 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by Farmer from Finland on Sept 24, 2003 20:01:54 GMT 1
Maybe,as i said,Winner manufacturing continued until 96(beginning).It this thing whatever,importing here stopped end of 94,for some reason.
I looked this irish quide for Winner and almost all of those problems are unknown for me,let see how long.Maybe reason is that my tractor have only 2800 hours.Also,as i know this version with electrical three point hitch handling haven't been available here.
I haven't never tested F140,so i don't have any opinion of that.
I must say also,i have been satisfied for Winner service until that,now i'm sometimes doing comparison between Valtra 6800 and F115.Both have good and bad sides.
But,i also know that now we have lot of better tractors in markets as Winner...let say so that poor guys have s**t devices for play......anyway fieldwork is going ahead....
FFF
|
|
|
Post by pudding as guest on Sept 24, 2003 21:01:08 GMT 1
interesting debate ya think the 140 was gutless?.......they only had a 5.8 litre motor, and a biggish turbo.......but they were known as a stong motor, capable of playing with the big boys.......and known for it i can't make any comment on the winner parts in the 60 series, not even the front axle, because i know that fiat axle was continually been improved i always thought if fiat didn't merge the winner F series was going to be there platform for a mid size tractor.......it had all the good basic atributes i thought, good cab, good opening doors, good front axle, great engine, good backend, but probably needing a wet clutch and powershift to keep up with the jones, fiat had the powershift tech in the company, from the older 90 series to build on so only time would have told........the 140 i know has had the backend out twice, it had a clutch and a new shaft for driving the pto, both put down to the large square baler it used to drag around the hills also the PAVT rims on the back were poorly adjust when young, and the rims were buckled...... the powershift was a option on the 90 series, they had two clutch options, i think, a 14in dry plate and the 12x12 or 24x12 and a wet style clutch in the powershift models the 16x16......but the reverser may very well been mechanical iveco did have a 8.1 litre engine in the 160,180-90 when imported they 160/180 came with no badges, the fuel pump was opened to suit the customer actually, its all on my website somewhere www.puddingsworld.com/Machinery/Fiat_Tractor/index.htmli had a soft spot for the old 5000 fords and similar models but never cared for anything else they built up to the mid nineties, the later ones had a great cab (the Q was good too) and carraro axles were nice, the NH axles are nice too i liked the 40 series, spend hours and hours on a 8340, and 7740 also think the 60/tm series and beyond are great, i have spend a lot of time on a 60 series, and thought they were a great all round tractor great thread anyone out there with a fiat bulldozer?........i drove a same rock 60c on rubber tracks the other day, what a weapon fiat had the steering-o-matic on the dozers, joystick control, anyone had one?.........what did you think?? the new SAME have 2 levers with dual function, disengage the clutch and apply brake the older 80-120C ag crawlers had a good reputation too....... pudding
|
|
|
Post by Woodbeef on Sept 24, 2003 21:27:52 GMT 1
All in all it looks like the writer gave a pretty good account of the Winner.
|
|
|
Post by Aidan1 on Sept 25, 2003 8:54:26 GMT 1
Pudding ... I think the problem with the F140 was where the torque was in the rev range. Unless you were way up in the revs, it could stall quite easily when it came under load; basically if the turbo wasn't on boost, it felt more like a 100hp tractor. It was very different to drive to the other tractors around at that stage. That said, I hauled a lot of cereals and silage with that one, and it was plenty fast on the road, provided you were willing to use the gear box a lot. On the PTO front, it was a better tractor on a big square baler than the JD7710 we had on hire for a while. And that isn't just an assessment from driving the two, thats from putting the two tractors in the same field and going as hard as possible. Fiat was over 5kph faster when the going got tough. And thats with only the hi/lo, the JD had a 4 speed powershift. The Deere was more comfortable and was better at ploughing though. The Winner was also very reliable, only problem was with the electrics at about 5000hrs (starter motor and alternator. It was sold soon after that. "iveco did have a 8.1 litre engine in the 160,180-90 when imported they 160/180 came with no badges, the fuel pump was opened to suit the customer" That makes sense, bit like the 7000 series JDs now. The dealers here are offering up to 225hp on the 7810 with warranty, more without ... Theres a guy in West Cork with 5 225hp 7810s (and one of the last Fiat 180-90s btw) drawing away from a 7000 series JD forager (they had the prototype of the 700hp one over from Germany this year, at one stage they were clearing close to 30 acres an hour with it. ) And yeah, the NH TMs are the job. Haven't driven the newest range (apart from a brief spin in a 130) but as far as I'm concerned, the TM-165 Ultra is the nicest tractor I've ever driven ... Ps. Sorry, the only crawler I've driven is a challenger
|
|
|
Post by Jas on Sept 25, 2003 11:32:11 GMT 1
Pudds What was the Same Rock like. I have only ever seen a Krypton, and i never drove it. Hopefully will drive one soon. Suprised by the price, much cheaper than the price of a good cat dozer, but i suppose there will be those who say that a cat dozer would be far better. While i agree for most people there is not need to have a cat dozer. Have you had much experience with Simba Discs. I have just recently seen a picture of a set of 23c 4.4 meter discs. Boy they are large. I have heard that the 34c has 86cm scolloped discs.
One thing i would like to do is drive a Cat Challenger, but unfortunately i don't know anyone. What is the 2000 mile harvest like, is it worth a kiwi doing it?? The experience will be amazing!!
|
|
|
Post by pudding as guest on Sept 25, 2003 21:29:29 GMT 1
lee sutton is the simba man round here, i would love to just see some run
also he has a challenger 75e i think
you wanna drive a cat huh?!........i like the mt's with the big drive wheel, drove one on a auger wagon for a bit, guys i worked with hated the 65d and 75e we had, but that is horses for courses, i get a blast out of drive the quadtracs, they are nice
1000mile harvest, work 18hour days, sleep, work, sleep, its a grind, but i would still do it, don't expect to see much of america, just the 1000miles between the start and finish......save ya money and tour america afterwards
the rock?
cheaper then a cat, well, ya!.........cat is a industrial machine, and carries a industrial price, put a blade on it and shift a mountain, the SAME?..........put a blade onit and wreck it!.......its a ag tractor with tracks,
dad took it for a spin and thought it was ok, so did i, it was a narrow dozer, lil cramped, good external hydraulica, was a 8x4 gear box, foot brake and clutch, pto, and 3 pt hitch, capable of running 15kph the krypton 100 on rubber tracks would be ideal for my ole man feeding silage, and hill work, just would have to find him a tracked undercarrage for his giltrap feed out wagon
i also saw a fiat 470 vinyard model yesterday, and a same condour.....what a weapon
|
|
|
Post by European A on Sept 25, 2003 22:17:02 GMT 1
This is one of the best topic I´ve read on this website. Brilliant posts! Cheers guys!
|
|
|
Post by pquinn on Sept 25, 2003 23:55:55 GMT 1
Never seen a challenger in real life myself, but from what you guys are saying the must be some machine.
there was only one running around here thats all i herd of being in Ireland. Maybe i am wrong.
|
|