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Post by Bernhard on Mar 7, 2008 8:27:28 GMT 1
Hi,
is someone around, who can give me some informations or links to agamchinery built in china before 1980?
I new they built a car named "red Flag" and a 4wd "warhorse on wheels".
But now I want to know about Tractors, Combines and other agmachinery. I can´t imagine, that everything was imported or only copied.
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Post by pudding on Mar 7, 2008 14:52:50 GMT 1
we had a bulldozer on the farm in bolivia, that the farms in america i worked for owned.......(mouth full huh)
it was a belarus DT75 track bulldozer,
apparently the communist parties liked sharing information and tooling with the communist buddies in other countries,
the only diff with the chinese built DT75 was the cast iron radiator and the writing on the side of it, it mean 'rising sun' or something
believe me the russians and the chinese did work together, to get mechanised
but the chinese farm machinery stayed primative for too long, true mechanisation of chinese ag presents another problem, mass rural unemployment, and the chinese government doesn't want that
i once go a email from a farmer over there with two SAME TITAN 190's !
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Post by Bernhard on Mar 7, 2008 20:03:35 GMT 1
I can believe, that chinese and russians worked together, even as there was the Usssuri border conflict around 1970.
Would like to know how the Chinese farmer has got the 2 Sames and how he has paid them.
What´s about Foton or Jinma? Have they exist before 1980?
A rumor said, that Mao was driven around in a Mercedes Benz 600. ;D
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Post by kevanos on Mar 18, 2008 14:37:13 GMT 1
I believe Futian, (Foton/Lovol), was founded in 2002, but it may have been formed from previous companies/factories. John Deere Tiantuo was founded in 2000, and Shanghai-New Holland in 2001. From the company websites, it appears the companies existed prior to 2000, but whether or not they manufactured tractors of just 2-wheel tractor/rototillers isn't clear. Jinma (Huanghi/ Jiangsu Yueda Yangcheng Tractor) traces it roots to 1959.
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Post by Red Painter on Mar 24, 2008 5:32:25 GMT 1
Bernhard, I had some pics of Chinese machinery from the mid 70's I think out of an old Implement and Tractor magazine, but the copies I made seem to have disappeared with last summer's cleaning. I do remember that they said most tractors were used for transport not for field work except maybe in some wheat growing areas. They had a tractor that looked alot like a Zetor 2011, 3011, or 4011 www.zetorworld.com/ it had a wrap around seat kind of like on the Ferguson/ MF's which I think the Zetor had. The front grill was however very flat and looked like the front of an old BM 230 www.agriaffaires.co.uk/used/antique-tractor/517224/bolinder-munktell-bm230.htmlthough it was a side mount tractor and the driver straddled the transmission like on the Ferguson and such tractors. It was a nice looking tractor though I can't seem to find anything exactly like it from other manufacturers. They also had a very small self propelled combine with a modern look at the time. Reminded me of a miniature Fahr from the 60's maybe though not as rounded on the corners. Didn't look like a Deere from Germany as I remember. www.farmphoto.com/FPv2/thread.aspx?mid=150196 They also had Soviet crawler like this with the old tank like tracks. www.autogallery.org.ru/k/t/dt54.jpg Mounted on the crawler was a combine type header with a conveyor going up the side of the tractor to the back where there was a rice thresher reminding me of mounted corn shellers on the back of 50's and 60's USA tractors with corn pickers. They still make a version mounted on wheel tractors. en.cnhmc.com.cn/newEbiz1/EbizPortalFG/portal/html/ProductInfoExhibit.html?ProductInfoExhibit_ProductID=c373e9106ef20e218f6a1543927d3f77&ProductInfoExhibit_isRefreshParent=false (Cant seem to find it now on the product list) They probably still used the old Stalin pull type combines for big grain farms which were similar to the old Holt Cat Deere 36's built till the early 50,s. They also had the walk behing tractors which could have a trailer attatched on which to ride or cary loads or the family. |
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Post by Red Painter on Mar 24, 2008 7:16:44 GMT 1
Under Grain Harvesters on the Chinese site, they have a harvester mounted on a wheel tractor which is similar to the harvester mounted on the old Russian track type tractor in China in the 70's.
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Post by Bernhard on Mar 24, 2008 8:00:02 GMT 1
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Post by adamL on Mar 24, 2008 11:57:12 GMT 1
we've got the 2008 Deere calender which has pictures from their factories all over the world. From what you can tell from a picture, all the facilites produce products that look like you would expect a Deere to look like, nice paint, nice welds, nice casts, execpt one. There are picture from the US, Mexico, India, Germany, Holland, France and China.
The stuff from China, from what you can tell from a picture on a calender, looks as though the only thing Deere have done is supply them with green and yellow paint. They look like 1950's home built machines not from a leading western manufacturer.
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Post by Bernhard on Mar 24, 2008 13:38:04 GMT 1
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Post by adamL on Mar 24, 2008 20:21:26 GMT 1
The picture on the calender is of some combines leaving the assembly line. They are very small, though that doesn't mean bad. There is a picture of the front axle and the castings look like the ones Zetor threw away for a 3011. They look cheap nasty machines, I expect that Deere are expecting the chinese market to grow, because their north american and european customers wouldn't buy that, no matter what colour the paint was. There is no reason that a low spec, small machine needs to be low in quality, just to clarify. |
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Post by Red Painter on Mar 25, 2008 2:35:29 GMT 1
Here's an era poster during the Mao days. Shows a little of the Zetor looking tractor and if you click on #2 which is a close up pic, you can see the Stalin era tracked tractor in the mural. How things have come since those days! www.1930shanghai.com/items/702183/item702183store.html#itemSeems to me the first company after the openning up of China to make a deal was Fiat. They may have supplied Albania with some licensed tractors also. As I remember China and Albania were friends when it seemed China was on the outs with Russia. That very closed Adriatic country had one half hour of Italian news for their contact with the outside. |
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Post by Bernhard on Mar 25, 2008 8:15:42 GMT 1
Yes...in the background should be a DT crawler. www.ddr-landmaschinen.de/fahrzeugseiten/traktoren.htmscroll down, there is a pic of a DT 75. As I have written above: I don´t think, that the Fiat clones came by the albanians, I would state Romania. JD made in china are offered in russia...somewhere here at AM is a link to be found. I could imagine, that there is a relation between CNH and chinese factories, casue of the NH looking Foton. Red or blue...didn´t matter, theya look like them. |
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Post by kevanos on Mar 25, 2008 18:00:41 GMT 1
Some of the Chinese-JD tractors are sold in Russia as Apollo or JDT www.souzmashimport.ru/production.php, and combines as AgForce. Although most of the photos seem to be missing... |
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Post by Red Painter on Mar 25, 2008 21:46:10 GMT 1
Yes, Bernhard, I am sure you are correct that Romania has been the supplier of Fiat type tractors. The DT design is still made in former Soviet countries I think. The crawler has some advantages over wheels in certain conditions.
Kevanos, in the 80's my sister went to Russia when she was studying in Florence, Italy for a year. She came home and told us of a story that there was a bunch of John Deere combines sitting in Russia that weren't being used because they didn't know how to use them. Don't think she saw them, but that was very unusal in those days of the Iron Curtain to have Deere combines in Russia. I doubt they didn't know how to use them; may have been waiting for distribution. I now wonder if those combines came from China.
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Post by Bernhard on Mar 26, 2008 12:56:57 GMT 1
Hey, Red Painter...
another very intresting aspect: What´s about agmachinery in Albania? Hard to believe that there is a former communist country, which didn´t have their own agmach factories.
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