tele loaders

[eppie]

Last week i came by the Valtra dealership, where a Deere 3800 articulated telehandler (or telescopic loader) was in for a small repair.

I was wondering about that: it looks very close to the Manitou 628 but with different specs.

Other manufacturers of articulated telehandlers are Redrock and Matbro. I cant find a Matbro website, are they still in business ?

One would expect that the visibility of an articulated telehandler would be much better, and the general build style of the articulated chassis, (big wheels) more suited for agricultural push&pull work..

Any experience with these ?

[adamL]

Renze, Matbro went chasing after market share in the mid 1990's, but it bit them on the bottom. Enter Mr Deere who didn't have a telehandler line. I'm not sure of who owned what and what deere did and didn't do, but basically Deere started selling Matbros with green paint and a Deere motor. Later Matbro seemed to disappear and Deere built (or at least marketed) a new line of machines that looked very much like green Matbros but with more neat and tidy look about them. A neighbour has a Terex version, not sure where they came into the game, but it is exactly the same as his old TR250 to my eyes.

As for articulated telescopics, I'm not convinced. They are ok if you have enough space. Sure you can thread them into some tight spaces, but the tail wag makes the machine need more room than you would with 4 steer, then if you are pushing into something like a pile of wheat and the machine moves you can get jammed next to the wall and can't move, where as in a 4WS you just select crab and move away. You can see better and you get a much bigger cab, but most of the time 4WS is better.

[eppie]

ok and what about drivelines ?

For pushing silage, or field work, i assume the articulated frame with bigger wheels, give better traction, and will last longer also because of stronger components ?

[adamL]

Most of the componants that get used on telescopics look like off the shelf parts to me. JCB build their own bits and seem to have steering and non steer versions of the same axle. They put a steering version on the 4ws machines and a non steering version on the artics.

I have been to a place where they were complaining about the new Manitous, but when I watched how they were using them, it was a wonder they lasted as long as they did. They were buying the 120hp versions, starting them in the morning, puting their foot on the floor and leaving it there. Those poor machine would be going forward at speed, with the boom out half way then they would select reverves without slowing, the machine would be going one way and the wheels the other, on stubble. Now I wonder why your transmissions are failing .

They don't seem to market the artics as tougher than the 4ws machines, but as ever I will stand corrected.

[pudding]

some of those artic machines are pretty ruff in the field, 4ws machines seem nicer in the fields, but that is my opinion, artics are more yard machines, tight spots etc

doesn't JCB have a some of its transmissions in other telehandlers......reman them etc, didn't some of the early matbro have ford bits in them?, engines, axles etc

chaining direction with out decreasing speed or rpm, slips the clutch packs............not a good idea

[adamL]

JCB seem to use the same transmissions and axles in several applications, that little Perkins was used all over the place too, I guess JCB are using their own motor now. I'm not sure whether other manufactures use JCB bits, The Manitou has a perkins and I think Dana axles.

in the 1980's Matbro used industrial Ford engines and the rear axles from Fords tractor line as did Teleshift, which were rubbish.

[eppie]

So, AdamL says, artics are better in the open, 4ws rules along walls.
Pudding says, artics are better in confined spaces, 4ws smoother in the field ??

I think when the wheels dont turn inwards, you can put wider tires under a rigid axle, articulated loader ?

How about loading high trucks at 4 meter ? does a 4w steer tele, with low placed cab, give enough vision at dump height ? Chicken shit is often moved in high volume containers, dump height 4 meter...


Adam, about the guys with failing transmissions, would it be possible for the dealer, to install an engine auto idle in the transmission/engine control, so it drops the revs before it shifts F/R ? If it does drop rpm automatically, the torque converter does the work (thats why its there anyways) not the clutch packs.

I'm not too fond of full authority electronic controls, but if you already got them on the machine, why not use it this way ?

[adamL]

Renze, not sure how much Pudds uses telescopics, but I use one most days. Like I say the artics are good threading through door ways but can be a real pain if you slide and get jammed against a wall. I think the may well be longer too.

Tyre width: We have floatation Michellins on ours, they could go a bit wider and taller I thing, but you would need to wind the steering stops out . There will be a finite amount of clearance between the frame and wheel on an artic machine, my guess is that the standard tyres on ag spec loaders are about as wide as will fit. The construction spec machines don't seem to get near the equiptment that machines destined for agriculture get.

Loading trucks: I don't know how high the grain bulkers are, but on our 7 meter machine we need to extend the boom a little to tip the bucket. You can't see into the trailer, but it is the truck drivers responsibility anyway. They nearly always stand on the platform to direct where to but the load, which is fair enough. Taller cab raise the C of G a bit and feel wobblier and there is the obvious low buiding issues. Merlo's have higher cabs. You can see a little more, but they are the sort of machine that gets jumped on and off during their line of work and it is another step to climb up.

Trans issues: I don't see why you couldn't put some kind of electronic control to idle the motor before a change of direction. It would probably better to educate the owners and operators about how to use them more effectively. To give a little back ground, this firm had the 531 LSU with 120hp, we now have the 731LSU but with only 100 hp. I have no problem at all loading the same size bales with eactly the same grab, but with 20 less horses. They were flat our all the time, I don't go much over 1500rpm, there is no need to beat the machine to death.

The LSU joystick is very, very good, but I think that JCB set the bar as far as building spool blocks go.