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Post by eppie on Oct 13, 2009 10:42:43 GMT 1
I just took some time to calculate some facts about the Trisix (i have time to think, because i am not at work today, i need to stay within 3 seconds of a toilet ;D ) :
Trisix tires: Continental 650/65 R 38 load index 157 A8 (which is 4125kg)
Conventional 936 rear tires : 900/60 R38 load index 173 A8 (which is 6500kg)
Trisix: six tires of 4125kg make 24750 kg
936: two of 4125 and 2 of 6500 make 21250 kg
Four tires of 6500kg make 26000 kg.
Fendt doesnt have steering axles that can support this weight and torque, so they just put three conventional front axles, with conventional front tires, under the Trisix.
Just a quick calculation to support my opinion about making a 2+2 (IH 3588 "ant eater" or "snoopy") out of a conventional 936 to put this power effectively to the ground at better manoeverability, lower vehicle weight and better visibility of the rear implements.
The front 3pt hitchon the Trisix is totally useless (unless for picking up ballast, but does a 19 ton tractor need even more ?) because a tractor of 540 hp will work with trailed implements only.
When you only have implements in the back, you need to place the cab on the back of the tractor, to see what you're doing back there. Without front implements (which you wouldnt use on this big rig anyways) there is nothing against articulated steering. Because there is no steering angle on each individual wheel, you can place them closer to the chassis and go to even wider tires.
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Post by pudding on Oct 14, 2009 12:12:38 GMT 1
ya still reckon CNH needs to re think the snoopy thing on the magnums, to make a 350 or 400 hp version. they have a lot of tech at there disposal now, good engines, cabs, transmissions, raba axles etc, they have the tools to make a versitile high hp tractor. but i guess they think the STX covers that market.
a 2+2 type tractor with reverse drive, accusteer in the forward direction, 300+ hp, linkage at either end probably sell well here, slowly customers are wanting more then 200hp vario and front pto,
why can't they give the magnum powershift the same number of gears forward and backwards, for use in a tractor like this?
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Post by eppie on Oct 14, 2009 17:35:53 GMT 1
Accusteer isnt necessary on a 2+2 or articulated... Volvo is using a hydromechanical steering system on their articulated dumptrucks, which is said to work as good as conventional steering.
The mechanical hookup solves all wandering problems associated with fully hydraulic steering on articulated chassis. It might still wander due to bumps that hit the vehicle on one side, but it corrects itself immediately so the driver doesnt have to.
Where would you use a 400hp reversible station tractor ? I cant see that happening, anyone needing that hp to run a mo/co or forager, will buy self propelled. Most use for reversible station tractors is at big farmers or small contractors that use 200hp tractors to chop just some hectares of silage.
For those who work with chippers or forest mulchers, those guys dont need the traction and can do well with a conventional framed 936... And again, at 360 hp i think its time to think about self propelled....
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Post by Bernhard on Oct 14, 2009 19:41:25 GMT 1
I guess the Trisix was only a study, to show what is possible.
But there als has been a tractor developed in CSSR which had 3 axles.
I don´t want to discuss the fact, if it is necessary to buy a Fendt. But Farmrs and contractors, who are doing so, aren´t fools. Todays agbusiness ís hard and will get harder every day. Didn´t matter if you use a spade or 1000 hp.
We never had a Fendt in use and we never will, they are too expensive. Not sure what would be if we had the ha and the money.
On th other side, if the Trisix would have been developed by Zetor or Zetor had the Vario Tranny at first, even all the goodies the Fendt has...yes he has them...what would you say? That Zetor is shit...or the best tractor ever been built?
Can it be, that you have lost your Job again, so that you have time to spend in useless thoughts? ;D a guy like you will not get a diarrhoe!! ;D ;D
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Post by eppie on Oct 15, 2009 23:40:50 GMT 1
a guy like you will not get a diarrhoe!! ;D ;D Oh Bernhard, you flatter me !! Off course i happen to shit vanilla whipcream from time to time, just like any other mammal...   ;D I guess the Trisix was only a study, to show what is possible. But there als has been a tractor developed in CSSR which had 3 axles. Yes, a guy named Dvorak built one on a Tatra 6x6 undercarriage, with 14 speed synchro, and 400hp air cooled V8. For him, the same goes as for Fendt: you take whatever parts you can get hold of: For Fendt it is three 900 series front axles and 2 ML260 transmissions, for Dvorak it is a Tatra 815 skid unit complete with engine and transmission. In order to transfer the traction on big wheels, both manufacturers needed 3 axles because there werent any standard sized -suspended- axles available to handle the torque. I don´t want to discuss the fact, if it is necessary to buy a Fendt. My point wasnt about brand bashing... On th other side, if the Trisix would have been developed by Zetor or Zetor had the Vario Tranny at first, even all the goodies the Fendt has...yes he has them...what would you say? That Zetor is shit...or the best tractor ever been built? That wasnt my point either... It was about the hype concerning a monstrous mismatch of off-the-shelf parts that gave every 16 year old tractor driver a hard one, without anybody realising how awkward this beast would be to manoeuver, or the effectiveness of the entire concept in the first place... The public took the Trisix way too serious...  Many have tried and abandoned three axle tractors: Fortschritt: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii0pucnRzikLely: www.farmphoto.com/thread.aspx?mid=16125#16125Valmet: www.konedata.net/Traktorit/Valmet1502.htmJohn Deere: www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIu95g-cxnQCan it be, that you have lost your Job again, so that you have time to spend in useless thoughts? ;D I am still drawing up loaders, but i cannot disclose any details.. Thanks for your concern  |
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Post by Bernhard on Oct 23, 2009 17:46:09 GMT 1
Can Diarrhoe get a brain infected?? As long s you only draw this loaders, it is ok.Noone can be hurt then.. |
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dom
Junior Member
Posts: 46
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Post by dom on Nov 2, 2009 20:49:30 GMT 1
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Post by Farmer from Finland on Nov 10, 2009 15:12:26 GMT 1
Now Deutz seems done 8 wheeled demo tractor.What says 'official' Fendt killer Renze to this tractor?
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Post by Bernhard on Nov 16, 2009 12:22:30 GMT 1
What would have been, if the Trisix was a Zetor?
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Post by eppie on Nov 16, 2009 20:21:10 GMT 1
Now Deutz seems done 8 wheeled demo tractor.What says 'official' Fendt killer Renze to this tractor? Its not hard to take an industrial V8, an Eccom 5.0 and two grader boogies off the shelf to create some media attention. To get this working without glitches in the real world, and ready for serial production, is another. The Deutz has even smaller wheels so the benefit of multiple axles is even further minimalised. When Gilette introduced 2 blades, Wilkinson followed quickly, taking away the bragging rights off Gilette. When Gillette introduced 3 blades, Wilkinson introduced 4 blades... Bernhard, you have a severe tunnel vision.  I wont keep explaining my point to you... |
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Post by Farmer from Finland on Nov 19, 2009 7:10:22 GMT 1
Valmet: www.konedata.net/Traktorit/Valmet1502.htmIn local newspaper wrote story about 1502.Main problem was that Valmet developed this model 20 years too earley.Second problem was that tractor was made using undersized components.Anyway,if this kind of tractor is made now,power could be maybe 250-300 HP,instead 1502s 120HP,bigger tyres,etc.. |
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Post by eppie on Nov 19, 2009 19:03:24 GMT 1
With the small tires and low mudguards of the Valmet, at least you have a proper view of the work...
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Post by Bernhard on Nov 21, 2009 12:59:48 GMT 1
Hey Doc... for the next time You got a Diarrhoe:  The Deutz-Fahr Agro XXL Prototype, 600 hp, 16 l Deutz V8, total weight 32 t, and the DTU T 860  Don´t think that they are that useless as You are stating. "Wondering, why you only have thought about trisix? what´s about the large articulated CNH, JD or Versatile?? Ok..all these tractors won´t fit to your carpet farm and I guess buying a Zetor only was a money thing, but there sem to be farms outside of the Netherlands, which have use for that kind of tractors. ;D Maybe you are investing money and time in useless Projects (and useless posts ;D), but AGCO or SDF can´t afford useless games. |
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Post by eppie on Nov 24, 2009 20:24:54 GMT 1
but AGCO or SDF can´t afford useless games After pissing off the Deutz fans by respraying the Agrotron in shabby red or silver, repainting this DTU is an excellent opportunity to re-establish Deutz as a premium brand... The difference between a Versatile and a Trisix and an AgroXXL is that two big axles is a lot more value for money than 3 or 4 small axles. Next to that, the view on the work is just dreadful on these multi axle tractors. And: the bigger diameter the tires are, the lower the rolling resistance is and the more efficient the power transfer. With an articulated chassis you can easily stuff wide tires within the same overall width with even more floatation than six 38" tires of the trisix. The specific ground pressure of the AgroXXL with 32 ton on 30" tires is only getting higher... With that weight, you just need more tires, the specific ground pressure is as high as an earthmover. The tire wear is very high when operated on the road (road transport was the whole point about developing something narrower than 2600mm) Well i just did explain my point ONCE AGAIN, specially for you. |
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Post by kiwicocky on Nov 26, 2009 3:08:36 GMT 1
If you really want to get high HP onto the ground why not just buy a Case Quadsteer?
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;D
I wont keep explaining my point to you... 