front weights

[jose]

so that in the markets of it usa and canada the front weights do not have you connect like in the European markets? where they hook something in case of stuck

[eppie]

What do you mean?

How many, and in what cases North American farmers use front weights compared to European farmers?

Well, i think N.A. farmers use much more weights on their big old 2WD tractors, to gain the same traction as the European MFWD tractors.

[Woodbeef]

Hey Jose,

Ya,I know what you mean about the difference in weights. I always thought the Euro way was a better setup. Like you say there is an attachment point on the Euro style,that is sorely lacking on the N.A. style.

Hey Renze,

You mean to tell me if I weight-up an old twd tractor it will have the pull and traction of a mfd tractor? If so then I've been wasting money all these years buying Euro buit mfd tractor,eh?

[eppie]

In the most ideal situations, hard soil, no hills, I'd say a weighted up 2WD can generate the same traction as a lightweight MFD. For example, our 5245: 1 ton fron, two tons of weight rear. That means 3 tons (3080 kg) on driven wheels. If i would have a 5211, 850 kg front, 2000 kg rear, i would have to change the geometry of the drawbar, in other words attach it above the center of the rear axle, to pull the weight from the front axle to the rear axle, the tractor wants to lift the front wheels and is transferring weight to the rear axle. Of course, balance is the main important factor, because you want to steer with the wheels, not with the brakes.

All you need to do is, attach another extra 1 ton of wheel weights, or water into the tires. You also have to make sure the tires can transfer the weight and power to the ground.

This just takes more fuel to burn, because you have to drag tha extra mass with you. The extra mass gives more strain on tires, driveline and brakes.
And, unmounting wheel weights takes more effort than shifting out the MFD.

In less ideal situations, mud or loose land, the front wheels are pushed into the mud, in forward direction. The weight on the not driven front axle becomes more of a pain in the a$$. An MFWD axle will 'climb upon' the mud, pulling itself out of the tracks. In this situation, the weight on the front axle counts double, the difference in 2WD or MFWD is 1 ton more effort, or 1 ton more traction !!


Getting back to the topic: Do you guys mean that N.A front weights dont have an attachment point for a chain, to pull it out if the tractor gets stuck?

Well, we never have that problem. Enough decent beams to attach the hook. By the way: Both the 5245 and 6718 have a bull bar, or as we call it, a 'Turk catcher' (once, a certain guy around here, accidently wrecked the Fiat car of a turkish guy with his Nissan PAtrol)

[Farmer from Finland]

WB,you haven't lost anything with Euro 4wd:s.
All those tries create 2wd4wd are more or less.....from...

My understanding is that (it seems that Renze have lot of intelligent) Renze is still forget one base thing.
Only half of tyre traction force on soils,NOTE on soils(sliding grass,snow or wood are diifferent), is creating by axle weight.Other half is from 'cutting force from earth'.Hopefully you understand what i'm saying.In some special conditions tyres are working as Renze is saying,maybe specially in netherland soils.
But still normally 4wd is better.Also with bigger tarctor could also limitation be that when you add loading for the tyre the pressure to the ground is too high and the traction force is going down.
In this moment by us is specially dry,our soil are very hard,ploughing is very difficult.I use normally cultivator,without any weight transfer with hydraulic.
In our conditions when i forget push 4wd switch and put cultivator to ground tractor stops.My understnding is that i canno't add so much weight to rear axle so that could do work,same situation is in ploughing,beacuse of dry soil.

FFF

[Woodbeef]

Hey Triple F,

Yes,the pull of the front axle does make a difference in most if not all situations,over heavily ballasted rear axle drive only.

[eppie]

FFF and WB:

When i said: "You also have to make sure the tires can transfer the weight and power to the ground." ,
I meant that you have to use the proper tires, that can transfer the weight to the ground, in other words: That they have about the same ground pressure as the unballasted MFWD. This can be done by using bigger rear tires, or using duals.

I know tires dont convert the weight on them fully to traction (not even in the most ideal situation, just the quadtrac could pull with a 13% higher force than it's own weight is, but let's keep it to average tires here)
but i think the forces are about in the same ratio to each other.

My example was purely theoretical to keep it clear, because else, as we would say in Holland, "you can't see the forest anymore, because of the trees" These ideal situation as i described, will rarely occur in practical farming operations, so i think in practice, you guys are right, but in theory, i am also right. (but i also agree with you)

I think the principle i described would be about true, just not the sizes of force.