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Post by Jon B on Aug 5, 2002 22:56:39 GMT 1
Woodbeef's posts a while ago about indepedent manufacturers, and rading on another website about the old Versatile combines, and some harvest time discussions prompted me to post this.
Besides Claas, who is still an indepedent combine manufacturer? That can also produce a good combine for North American conditions. And that can produce an affordable but durable machine that the small producer can afford too.
All the combine manufacturers (besides Claas) are increasing the capacity of their combines dramtically (and they increase the price as well). Todays John Deere 9450 has the same caopacity as a 8820 20 years ago. Todays Case 2344 has the same capacity as a 1480 20 years ago. Well thats nice and all, but you're paying for it.
What I would like is a modern equivilant of a 1440 International, or something. A machine that has all the modern ideas, but on a smaller and affordable scale. I know Europe has some manufacturers that play with that concept (Duetz Fahr, Bizon, etc) but I would like North American manufacturers to focus on something like that too.
And don't tell me to buy a big combine (ie 9450) and share it with 5 farmers. Please, if there is one thing us farmers are famous for, it is that we all cannot get along, especially when it is harvest time. I would like a new combine that I could take off my 60 acres of wheat, 90 acres of soys, 60 acres of corn, by myself, and not worry about the fact that my wheat is sprouting and the guy running the combine has 200 acres to do before its my turn.
Give me a pull-type combine if need be - why don't they make those any more either? Darn equipment companies are just as much to blame for the demise of farming as anyone else is. There's always been demand - its just the bottom line that they are worried about
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Post by Red_Painter on Aug 6, 2002 2:12:50 GMT 1
More than one person has made such comments, Jon Bos. It seems like us smaller guys are forced to keep the old models running if we can find parts or wait for them. You always hear that making such combines new would cost too much. MF tried to sell Brazilian combines here, and DA or AC had some L4's and maybe M4's made in Mexico, but that didn't last long. I guess dealers even have trouble selling late model used combines. An Alberta dealer once asked me about marketing NH TR's down here since there was a gap between what big operators could buy and what smaller farmers could afford, but I had to say that New Hollands aren't seen much in the U S wheat belt.
Cost! It's been the same story for years. Even big operators rarely buy new here. There are alot of early 80's combines still going here though they're usually big machines.
I like your idea of a pull type combine. Once it was a cost effective alternative on the plains and I never could see why it wouldn't work in other areas in the right size maybe with a little field openning with your older self propelled.
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Post by Friedhelm on Aug 6, 2002 8:38:57 GMT 1
With that amount of acres farmers in Europe usually have got their own combine.
Smaller combines are offered here by all brands. For example: Sampo Rosenlew machines are sold in own colours and in MF colours. Deutz-Fahr combines are now build by MF in the danish Factory at Randers. We will get soon some new Types which are the DF Topliner . The reason is just what you mentioned: The big and high tech Combines are to exspensive for Farmers. This means small combines by Sampo, middle combines DF and the big ones really MF.
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Post by Farmer from Finland on Aug 6, 2002 16:36:06 GMT 1
Hello from Finland,here is link to finnish combine manufacturer www.sampo-rosenlew.fi/english.htmAs i know the contract between Sampo and MF is over. Maybe this year Mf is still selling Sampo in MF colors in scandinavia but then cooperation stopped.Lets have a look to sampo. Best regards farmer%20%3B%29 |
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Post by Red_Painter on Aug 6, 2002 17:50:16 GMT 1
The Sampo is a nice looking combine. Nice to see that an independent manufacturer is still going. I've seen two here under MF colors. One was a plot combine and the other, probably used for seed larger seed plots, had about a 90cm cylinder. Interesting that it had an engine mounted on the lower right of the combine at ground level where it was easy to service though I wouldn't want the engine that close to the stubble due to fire danger.
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Post by Farmer from Finland on Aug 6, 2002 21:30:26 GMT 1
I could remember quiet well the history of Sampo combines.
My first harvest where i have driven mysefl with combine was 1972 when i tested small sampo,it were from year 1962 or near.Working widht 7" and equipped with Volkswagen gas-engine.Engine is located up on the machine and also very near driven.Noise were teriible.
After that Sampo started make models 10,20,30 etc.Working widht7,5-9".And Valmet 3-cyl diesel engine located like Red Painter said.Latest members of this construction were manufactured maybe 5 years ago.Those models were sampo 500,580 and 2020 etc.They had also MF sisters MF 330,17 and 19.
Sampo started on beginning of 1970 the developing work also for3 meter (10") machine.From this family maybe in europe in somewhere models MF 430 of MF 20.
During last 10 years(about) same dealer have sold same combine with both names Sampo and MF.Sounds maybe
strange.Ok,reason is that when MF stopped own combine making they made contract with Sampo and local dealer started sell SampoMF.Later two dealers puttid their business under same roof and also Sampo and MF,same Combine but different colour were also together.
I have MF206 year 1978,but big part our harvest is made now using my cousins Sampo 600(same machine as mentioned MF 430),because we have lot of cooperation.
Hopefully you could understand my english,it's not perfect,but i try.
Best regards Farmer
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Post by Friedhelm on Aug 7, 2002 15:55:56 GMT 1
Hello to Finland.
As far as I know Sampo combines will still be avaiable in MF colours in the future, because there is almost no one who makes such small combines anymore.
My Dad sold a 430 some years ago, without cab. Runs still without problems.
Very relaiable and low spec machines, everything you need is on it but not more. Hopefully Sampo goes on.
Have imported some tractors years ago from finland, much better machines compared to what we got from the UK at that time.
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Post by Farmer from Finland on Aug 8, 2002 6:56:36 GMT 1
Maybe Sampo is supplying somewhere combines as MF.
I asked this matter using mail directly from manufacturer let see what is whole story.In Finland we could get only yellow Sampo,MF is gone.
By the way,my cooperation farm got yesterday evening brand new Claas Medion 310,i'm going today evening to see how it works,Maybe.He change from 1080 DF to Medion.technical level jumps very much.Also size.
Farmer
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Post by Farmer from Finland on Aug 8, 2002 12:15:58 GMT 1
Yeah,it's true that the contract between sampo and MF is broken.But this contract is still valid to the next year.
Also contract included only MF 20 serie which is based to Sampo 2000 serie.
Sampo 3000 serie is in markets only as Sampo.Also the reason for this broke between Sampo and Acgo is this 3000 serie.MF have own products in this area and they want continue manufacturing of those.
Let see what happened after next year,but according the mail from Sampo salesman,in Sweden and Norway seems that it continues.
Also Sampo don't have big interest continue marketing of small combines in Europe,because markets are going down.
So if somebody raelly want have small combine,lets do something hurry....
Farmer
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Post by eppie on Aug 10, 2002 20:18:01 GMT 1
Sampo should give Valtra a call.
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Post by Steppenwolf on Aug 10, 2002 20:20:33 GMT 1
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Post by F6L913 on Aug 11, 2002 11:55:59 GMT 1
About Claas Dominators, the Medion are the same machines as the Dominator. Maybe different cab and some small changes but the same.
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Post by Jon B on Aug 13, 2002 1:06:10 GMT 1
And why isn't the Medion available in North America? Don't tell me that it is because conditions are different. Last time I checked, corn is still corn, whether it is grown in Iowa, Bavaria, or Catalonia, or near Laapa
And don't tell me because there is no demand in North America. Maybe if Claas would introduce it, the Medion would take off.
I honestly think that the machinery companies DO play a part in the demise of the small farm in North America. How big a part, I don't know. But there are lots of guys wanting a new, small combine - a Medion, or a Sampa. But with Deere and its 9750, and Case threating to make the 2388 the baby in its range, small farmers have no choice.
I know demand fuels supply, but supply also fuels demand - if no one produces it, or makes it available, then there is no customer.
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Post by Farmer from Finland on Aug 14, 2002 8:27:50 GMT 1
I looked Claas from internet.It seems that Claas is selling combines using cooperation with Cat.And using name Lexion.There models starts from smallest model of lexion,no medion available.Is that so?Also i can't find any connection to Canada,only US.
Anyway Claas have still Dominator models 48-68 in manufacturing programm.Where they are selling those and how active is different question.Are those avilable in Canada.
But JB,it seems that only big is beatyfully(if we are looking machinepictures),we also there north are sometimes discussed matters like you,the problem with all machines is same, bigger and again bigger.Many have seen pictures of seeding world record made in Finland.It shows strange view of finnish farming.Also we hier could only have information from America how all farms are big,bigger and powerfull,very effectiv production with large fields and machines.
Farmer
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Post by Woodbeef on Aug 14, 2002 14:23:54 GMT 1
Hey Triple F,
How's it going on your side of the pond?
Claas North America does not at this time sell combines,might change though in the future. Cat & Claas hooked up in joint ventures to move Challengers and Lexions in non-traditional areas for each. Take a wander back to before Christmas for posts and archive info.
The only Claas combines available new over here are painted Cat yellow in both Canada and the US(might be able to buy other sizes Claas in Quebec though).
Yes,unfortunately most manufacturers over here are pushing bigger and bigger kit. They are perpetuating the idea that if you want to stay in traditional agriculture,you must go big or stay home!!
For this very reason,I'm a Bison Producer. I can stay small,just grow grass and hay and still survive. It is way cheaper for me to purchase the small amount of oats that I use than to grow it.
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