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Post by RmarkV on Jul 13, 2002 12:29:26 GMT 1
As a long time user of the Frendt Tractors, I just wonder has AGCO already shot themseves in the foot with there plans to market some of their other products in the Fendt Colours. Here in Ireland they may find their Fendt Dealers a bit hesitant to take on these machines, as their major selling dealers have the Claas agency as well, as well as the fact that these machines are just rebranded with green and a few fancy extras as standard. I wouldn't rely on these machines to heavely as they were not designed by the Fendt guys or made in Germany. As for the MF vairo I can see problems, with this would existing and future buyers be annoyed with the fact that a Fendt Hybred was on the market. I would think twice about buying Fendt if this goes ahead. The Fendt brand is known for it tractors and possibly somewhat for its combines? It is not right that AGCO use this name to sell more machinery which inafect is anything but Fendt. Well these are my thoughts  |
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Post by Friedhelm on Jul 13, 2002 13:15:13 GMT 1
In my opion the big brands want their dealers to sell only their machinery and not like your example Fendt tractors and other machinery from Claas. Example: Here in Germany it is almost impossible for a Jd Dealer to sell something from another brand if a similar machine is offered by JD. Maybe AGCO wants this to do with Fendt and MF also. Fullliner or Longliner are the words you hear if it goes about this things.
Rumours are old about Claas buying a tractor brand to be also a Fullliner themselves. Deutz is one brand which Claas would like to buy rumours go about. Claas lost some really big an good Dealers because the tractor brand forced the dealers to sell combines, balers and Foragers with the same colour.
Right or wrong what possibilities do you have as a dealer? The companies will cut down your discount and it gets harder to earn money. It is already hard to earn money on agricultural machinery so every percent discount you loose it gets even harder.
Maybe this is also a chance for smaller brands to get bigger (Valtra, Zetor, Sampo Rosenlew, ..). Small companies are acting quiker on customers demands and are still happy with each dealer selling their products. But who strong are the big four already? This is not only a dealer problem this will be a big problem for the customers in the future in my opinion.
Other thoughts?
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Post by RmarkV on Jul 13, 2002 16:45:03 GMT 1
I didn't mean that companies want dealers to sell their tractors and other comapnies machinery. What I was trying to say was that are selling Fendt tractors were only selling tractors and had to go else where for their machinery, but that now AGCO is trying to brand machinery Fendt that what is the dealer to do, Claas has to be the best harvest machinery around then to be told of the intention to market a whole range of Fendt products. AGCO should be in consultation with their dearlers instead of just landing an ulitimatum on them
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Post by Red_Painter on Jul 13, 2002 17:57:40 GMT 1
I'm thinking along the same line as Friedhelm though I doubt they'll demand dealer participation like Deere. It seems that the pressure is on dealers of many companies to choose what lines they want to sell and drop another line or sell both. I don't think Agco is as difficult of a company to have multiple major brands under as some other companies and will not pressure dealers to drop other lines. Indeed, in North America you're more likely to see an Agco dealer selling another major line than other major dealers.
Deere even made our local dealer get rid of small Toro lawnmowers. However, there are some John Deere dealers selling Claas Jaguars. This may be testimony to the quality of Claas foragers as Claas is no big deal in North America except with the sudden success of the Jaguar.
Until recent years, Ford New Holland made almost all dealers selling other major lines in the Canadian prairies get rid of other major lines. Many Agco NH dealers in the US now sell mostly NH and maybe some token Agco tractors. The main exception has been some of those dealers selling New Holland and Gleaner combines sell mostly or exclusively Gleaner combines. Some have recently gone exclusively to NH. A Canadian dealer told me a few years ago that Agco didn't seem to mind if they sold other lines, but New Holland was wanting them to take on their line which meant that they would have to drop their old Agco and Kubota lines if I remember right. One of the other guys in the dealership didn't want to change. I think they're still Agco. Now Canadian dealers can't be forced to sell only one major line anymore. However inventory requirements by some companies probably makes having two full lines impractical. I think that Agco is trying to stay in business by increasing market share and keeping their dealers selling their lines. I know they're trying to increase their presence in Europe in forage equipment with manufacturing in the Netherlands.
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Post by JoeinTX on Jul 14, 2002 4:08:06 GMT 1
Well ReMarkV, you may not like it but it is the way of the world. When ACGO bought Fendt they did it as much for the name as the technology as well as the extra dealer base it would give them in Europe. That name recognition and dealer base is there for them to sell their products through, nothing more and nothing less. Do you really think that Massey balers or New Idea planters painted in Fendt colors will drive off the loyal Fendt tractor buyer? It will give him more options from his dealer and make some of his maintenance/parts needs easier because more of his implements can be serviced from one dealer and brand. Only when a new parent company moves in and changes the original company's core product does it really drive the loyal buyers away. One example, Deutz buying Allis-Chalmers and the resulting disaster they wrought. AGCO is not changing Fendt's core product, the Fendt tractor-it is simply expanding the options around it for the Fendt buyer. It is also taking that Fendt technology and expanding its use over a broader range of equipment and brands. How does this hurt anyone? Greater use and demand for Fendt designed and produced components will create more jobs and money flow for the company as well as get buyers more used to and comfortable with it. So far, this is all positive for Fendt. I don't see AGCO telling its dealers they can't sell Claas equipment too, even though it will compete directly with AGCO's harvester lines. Why is Claas having a fit over Fendt dealers selling balers and such from AGCO which may not directly compete with Claas? Claas can get an ego as soon as it can offer a full line to the dealer. Until then, they should quit trying to run the dealers business for them (that goes for any other brand trying to bully their sellers as well.) As far as not relying on what products they may sell in the future because they aren't Fendt designs or made in Deutschland, you shouldn't be so narrow minded. Many people over here have that same opinion of European made equipment. They see it as too light and somewhat high maintenance when compared to U.S made products. You know that probably isn't necessarily the case......you also know that just because something isn't made in Germany that doesn't mean that it's not a good machine. Everything that occurs in the ag marketplace is market driven. It is happening for a very good reason and there is business sense behind it. CaseIH and New Holland didn't merge just to ruin everyone's day. It had become clear to them that the market (that is you and how you spend your money) would no longer support each company on its own. Thus, they merged to survive on the shrinking amount of money in ag business. The same is occuring with Fendt and AGCO. The market is dictating that the moves that you desribe must be made.......
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Post by Friedhelm on Jul 14, 2002 13:16:09 GMT 1
To Remark
But it will happen that way. Just wait sometime and you will be able to buy telescopic handlers, ploughs, .... in Fendt colours and dealers will have to sell them.
to Red_Painter:
Hopefully you are right about it. It would be better but I think the other companies will go the same way JD does already.
What do you mean by saying Canadian Dealers can´t be forced anymore? Do you have a law which denies such acting or how does this work?
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Post by Woodbeef on Jul 14, 2002 13:27:49 GMT 1
Yep,I agree with the Tejano !!
Fendt like all other companies that have machines that are screwed together by humans, will be getting them from different parts of the world. Like it or not this part of today's global economy.
Just because it is not totally Fendt engineered or built in Germany,does not make it any less of a quality product. Fendt over here is getting a reputation of being overpriced,and nothing more than a gimicky plastic tractor!!
As for the sharing of the Vario,why not? It allows much better economies of scale,along with a larger testing and sales market. I can not really see what difference it makes if you can buy a Massey with a Fendt tranny!! How does this devalue Fendt or the Vario?
Also remember that if Fendt was to develope their own full line it would be so expensive due to low volumes that no one could afford it. Plus what gaurantees that it would be anything better than Agco supplies now?
As for the comment that if it was not built in Germany it is not as good, well...........I seem to remember lots of problems arising also from German manufacturing. Just look at the Deutz Agrotrons problems,Fendt 700 series, JD Manhiem,etc......
Friedhelm,yep exactly there is a law now in Canada that no company can force a dealer to only sell their brand. NH is getting around this by telling them they need a seperate building to house the NH dealership. This is the same tactic that Mitsubishi took in the States with car dealers in the late 80s.
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Post by Jon B on Jul 14, 2002 15:17:27 GMT 1
Good point on the dealerships Woodbeef
Our local New Holland dealer, Sander's Equipment, also sells in direct competition with NH, the Hagedorn manure spreaders (much better product), and they are also a fringe Valtra dealer.
But they sell those lines in their "trade barn" building. They call this company Nauvoo Enterprises. So this way, New Holland can't hassle them about it.
They also sell Buhler tractors, but I think the agreement is a bit different there - they can sell them in the same building.
Anyways, there are lots of loopholes around such things. But in the USA, a dealer can sell, before the CNH merger, Case, New Holland, Agco, and Valtra all under one roof.
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Post by leemsutton on Jul 14, 2002 16:44:31 GMT 1
Woodbeef,
As you know 18 months ago we were looking for a 280-300hp tractor. Before we finally decided on a MX270 we looked at everything that was on offer - JD, FORD, MASSEY, CASE, CAT, CLAAS, FENDT.
The best build quality by far was the fendt. You stated that the fendt in Canada have got a reputation for being plasticy. Well I was wondering if the product is different for each country! what do you think?
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Post by Red_Painter on Jul 14, 2002 16:49:32 GMT 1
A few years ago I ran across an article that Saskatchewan made a law that companies could no longer force dealers to sell only their line of equipment. I also heard that other prairie provinces have done the same though I'm not 100 percent sure. I know there are two large Agco dealers who now sell New Holland and Agco. Maybe agco will go the way of other companies. Do they have the market presence to do so like Deere I am wondering.
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Post by CurtUSA on Jul 14, 2002 23:59:50 GMT 1
I don't know about europe but here in the US New holland didn't tell us we couldn't sale other lines of equipment, what they did do is take away our 2% yearly bonus and replaced it with dealer standards in which every year our dealership is graded with a points system to determine how much of the 2% you can earn. Its around 950 points total the deduction for other major full line is like only like 40 points, and yes it isn't a problem to get the full 2% even minus the 40 points. If a dealer does 10 million then it may be in his best interest to dump the other brands if it can put them in a different 1/2% bracket. The final decision is the dealership not NH.
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Post by Woodbeef on Jul 15, 2002 3:30:53 GMT 1
Hey Lee,
How's the new site doing?
Now do not get me wrong on Fendts. Heck if I had the $$$ I'd buy a 411 for doing hay.
Just sit in a 700 series and you'll see what I mean,about the chincy plastic. Which is totally out of character I feel for Fendt!!
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Post by Red_Painter on Jul 15, 2002 3:52:51 GMT 1
CurtUSA, maybe I should have said that just going on what a few dealers told me a few years back, it was my understanding that Ford New Holland dealers in the Canadian prairies could have another major franchise, but they had to have a different location and different sets of books for the separately run dealerships and could not operate the two franchises as one business. I thought that recent legislation maybe changed that. From what Woodbeef said, if NH still can require separate buildings, things aren't that much different.
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