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Post by leemsutton on Jun 29, 2002 9:53:17 GMT 1
The production costs of any business in the UK is currently very high. Its due to a number of things but the strong pound does not help. Other things such of standard of living etc push up labour costs.
However as a UK reisdent I would never vote to move to the Euro as we would be loosing our independance. This appears to be the general concesus of over 90% of the population so unfortunately it looks like alot of business will be moving countries to reduce production costs!
This is happening with farmers as well. Many are investing in farms in Russia etc as the Fixed costs (labour etc ) are a lot lower than they are here. Ok there are no sudsidies but they are making more profit. Take a look at this budget taken from the FW this week. It is comparing a Wheat gross margin for the UK and Russia (Its in $ NOT £)<br>
UK Russia
Income
Yield 8t/ha 4t/ha
Price $100/t $100/t
Output $800/ha $400/ha
Input cost
Seed $61/ha $30/ha
Fert $130/ha $38/ha
Sprays $162/ha $38/ha
Gross Margin $447/ha $294/ha
Operating cost
Labour $109/ha $7/ha
Fuel $28/ha $12/ha
Other $33/ha $12/ha
Total $170/ha $33/ha
Machinery cost $79/ha $69/ha
Land cost $375/ha $35/ha
Total $624/ha $137/ha
Margin before aid $-177/ha $157/ha
Area aid (UK only) $277/ha $0
Net margin $100/ha $157/ha
So as we can see there is definately a point to the move to another country to reduce the production costs. The operating cost in Russia is $137/ha less than it is in the UK.
We in the UK must be mad trying to carry on doing what were doing!
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Post by Fred on Jun 29, 2002 15:36:21 GMT 1
Your unfortunetly correct lee. Costs are too high and no willingness to adopt the Euro. If when all the manufacturers have shut up shop and farmers gone to other countries the population and politicians will be pleased with their post industrial society. Could Euro adoption actually give more independance through the country having a manufacturing base, an agricultural community and a huge market to sell and buy in without currency fluctuations.
When comparing with Russian costs don't forget that in the UK your life is probably safer!
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Post by Woodbeef on Jun 30, 2002 4:42:56 GMT 1
Hey Lee,
Is not the problem of way too high cost of labor what killed Marshall's line of tractors also?
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Post by leemsutton on Jun 30, 2002 9:46:33 GMT 1
Woodbeef,
You've lost me there. What did you mean about marshall tractors?
Fred,
Your probably right with the euro thing but i think its just the principle of it that puts everybody off - including myself.
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Post by Fred on Jun 30, 2002 11:01:25 GMT 1
Woodbeef
What killed off the 1980's Marshall line of tractors was they were c**p and nobody wanted to buy them!
No seriously their problems were many, the Nuffield company became a part of the British motor corporation (BMC) in the sixties/seventies along with most British car manufacturers which became an unwieldy large group without a direction. Many industrial disputes and poor build quality resulted in customer dissatisfaction, watch Clarksons Car Years on BBCworld satalite channel for a good/humerous analysis of the 70's British car industry. In 67/68 Nuffield introduced the orange 3/45 and 4/65 sales were slow and so they changed bonnet shape and colour to blue. I believe sales improved but quality was poor, my father bought three 384's (70hp) none exactly great, one had ten head gaskets in 1000 hours! and resulted in him becoming primarily a deereoid, who wouldn't. Late seventies and high interest rates, low sales and Mrs Thatcher resulted in poor finances and privatisation. Another change of colour to yellow and a number of ownership changes and ressurection of the Marshall name to replace Leyland, together with the slogan "Made Better By Marshall" says it all. They did introduce some plus 100hp tractors that have stood the test of time but when new I think farmers were unconvinced with them plus cost and availability compared to the big makes. Some Steyrs were painted harvest gold but the last range were IMT clones I think, anyone know?
So in conclusion labour costs did not kill Marshall reputation and market conditions did.
I don't believe Agco closed banner lane due to Labour costs, Wage costs/welfare costs are far higher in France where a lot of production is to be transfered.
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Post by eppie on Jun 30, 2002 11:27:57 GMT 1
My uncle from Canada says nobody wants English built tractors anymore, due to the bad reputation of the MF 500 and 600 series, and the London built Case series.
Hey, were those Nuffield/Leyland engines of the same family as the Leyland truck engine?? Dutch truck maker DAF took over Leyland, and converted the six cylinder 5,75 litre engine to metric M thread. Those DAF 575 engines have a very, very good reputation here.
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Post by Fred on Jun 30, 2002 11:43:34 GMT 1
Renze
The 384 had a 4 cylinder nuffield derived engine I believe, not the same as the truck. The 285/485 and 2100/4100 had the 6 cylinder truck engine with a good reputation. The tractor was built with proven components but when all those components were together the result was not very good!
Were any MF 600 series built in England, I thought they were all french, except for the rotting Italian cab?
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Post by Woodbeef on Jun 30, 2002 15:46:33 GMT 1
Hey Renze,
Not really sure about your statement about the Massey buyers,and place of manufacture?
We never had the 500 series over here.
The 600 is a very well put together tractor,that was built at Beauvais not Banner Lane. Still plenty of them running around.
Massey lost their reputation on the over 80hp tractors,not the under ones.
Still plenty of Massey dealers,and sales here in Ontario.
As for the English built CIH offerings. Whether they were built at Doncaster or Meltham,plenty of them still around,and they still bring good prices used till this day.
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Post by kenjar on Jul 1, 2002 0:07:35 GMT 1
Lee,
The Euro vs the Pound may have just been one excuse. I am thinking cost reductions. Cheaper to operate less plants than more. By consolidating you cut your workforce and management as well.
On the subject of Marshall, I read that the M and S series were the last 2wds sold as Marshalls. These were scourced from Steyr. The last Field Marshall was the TM155 and production on it ceased in 1996.
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Post by Friedhelm on Jul 1, 2002 19:26:00 GMT 1
Hello.
As far as I know 500 Series were build in Coventry and Beauvais. (Same thing with 135 ). 600 er Series I only know from the netherlands. We had in Germany the 300 Series from Landini with the same rotten italian cab. I think it is no good what is going on in Agmachinery industries the last few years. If this goes on we will have to choose between four brands left.
Cause I am selling MF tractors I only hope the 4300 series go on. A well build tractor for customers which don´t want high tech tractors these days.
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Post by kenjar on Jul 1, 2002 19:47:08 GMT 1
Hello Friedhelm,
In the US we had the 200 and 300 series scourced from Banner Lane. Our 600 series came from France. We also had a French built 3500 series.
I wonder what MF will offer when the last 4300 rolls of the Banner Lane line. Could be the 4400 is waiting to be unveiled.
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Post by Si on Jul 1, 2002 22:04:21 GMT 1
It is a big shame that Banner Lane is closing I have been round it many times, ans you could, unfortunatly see the writing on the wall, the factory, though huge was still very old in design, compared with others I have visited (Merlo in Italy for instance). There as alot of old Labour intensive machinery, and old machines, and in a modern market this is uneconomic. This is a shame especialy when you got to the end of the tour and were shown the museum with the first Grey Fergie, the Artic Fergies and other historic tractors. This factory did and still does produce good products, and it is a shame to see it go.
Cheers
Simon
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Post by European A on Jul 1, 2002 22:44:24 GMT 1
I visited the Banner Lane plant in 1997. I agree with Si. This historic factory needed a big injection of money to be competitive. On the following year I visited the JCB plant at Rocester where they build backhoe loaders...nothing to do with the old tool machinery and buildings at Coventry. I also was around Case IH´s Doncaster plant that looked much better than MF´s one. On the other hand I do believe the pound has killed the factory (two strong for such amount of export and two weak to compete without Europe and the new coin)... Just my opinion
As a resident in Coventry for two years the closure of Ferguson´s plant is a very sad fact. I will never forget the 4200 Series in MF red, White grey and Allis orange...
MY support for my friends who still work over there
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Post by Friedhelm on Jul 2, 2002 12:49:33 GMT 1
Hello Kenjar.
We were told that AGCO plans to build the 4300 series at Beauvais factory. However the Gearbox and rearaxle will come from Banner Lane until 2003. From that point the GIMA will deliver Gearbox and rearaxle for the 4300 series. We will see what happens. Sounds reasonable because 4300 series were presentend last winter and the lifetime of a serie shouldbe longer than just a year.
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Post by eppie on Jul 2, 2002 13:55:25 GMT 1
On what base will these 4300's be built?
Renault Ceres transmissions?? Are those any better?
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