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Post by eppie on Jun 17, 2002 19:04:44 GMT 1
Hey people,
I was wondering: Why does everyone has his special brand? We are talking in terms like "Deeroids" , lovers of French Citroen cars are stigmatized with the badge "Citrophiles" and so on. The brands that spend/spill loads of money to commercial activities, have the most cult followers ? some of them are so blinded, that they cant see elsewhere. Is it just a way of self protection, as long as you believe that just your brand is good, you dont have to get bothered about the others, to make the choices of life easier?? Is it selective blindness?? Or are some features so important for people, that they arent concerned about other facts?
In my town there's a contractor. Fordson logo is their company logo, and one of them has the fordson logo on his gravestone. (TRUE, i am serious!)
I wonder how long the boss will live when they replaced the last Ford with a TM. He might die with his brand.
What are the psychological factors that make people swear by the one, and swear at the other brand??
Is it just depending on the brand you are raised with??
My dad is still fond of JD, because of that 500 or 510 he had years ago.
And i, raised in the Zetor era, am a true Zetor man, The hours i spent on the 4712 as a kid, when i drove it with 8m3 manure tank over the Steernbos roads, and everyone was looking at that little kid with its little tractor and HUGE manure tankers and cultivators, left an unerasable impression on me.
Hey guys, something to say about this?
Or am i talking sh*t once again???
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Post by F6L913 on Jun 17, 2002 21:13:44 GMT 1
Hey Renze.
My father loves Deutz and Fahr, Many years ago he had a Eicher with Deutz engine and later bought a Fahr combine. I'm really deep into Deutz-Fahr too. I like to read about Deutz engines, tractors and combines. Well i like to read about all with a engine. I say, If it hava an engine, then i like it.
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Post by JoeinTX on Jun 18, 2002 5:25:10 GMT 1
I've wondered often about this, too. Could it be, as some mention, that it has to do with what they grew up with as a child? Do they remember the old Farmall that grandpa had or the AC that they rode as a youngster or the little FIAT that sat out behind the barn and develop their own loyalties in large part from that? You will hear many say "I've been around John Deere's all my life etc, etc." and that justifies having only JD's to them. Freud might have some interesting things to say about that........ I've also wondered about the relationship between geography and brand loyalty. It seems apparent that what brand(s) become established in a certain area often carry on for years and years when others move in and fail.  It's very obvious in some parts of the US. Here, this is AC or Ford or Case country. Most of the dealers in the area going back 50 years or so have sold either AC/Gleaner, Ford/New Holland, or Case/Farmall, International. There are JD and MF dealers and others around in decent number-but the small-time, "mom and pop," dealers in areas where no one else will go are the AGCO and New Holland guys for the most part. I know that this has to go back many decades based upon who was strong here in the "old days" and who wasn't. One won't see much new JD, or MF, or foreign makes here. The newest combine I"ve seen in the area was a Gleaner. The newest tractor was a New Holland. Anyone else notice this? |
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Post by HPP on Jun 18, 2002 8:03:03 GMT 1
This is a very interesting topic I think, thanks Renze!
I also think you have exactly the right answer to your question, in some respect at least. I think that a lot of times it´s what you call self protection.
In later years it has changed a bit though, because it had to. And this all due, of course to all the buy outs.
Imagine how many brand-loyal guys out there that has suffered in the last fourty years. IH-guys, David Brown-guys, Ford-guys, Porsche-Allgaier-guys, Hanomag-guys, Volvo-guys etc., etc. Nowadays there are more and more guys who seem to be afraid of "getting in too deep" with their brand. How knows how long they´ll be around!
A very smart thing to do for one company who buys or merge with another is to buy the right to use the name as well. Valmet did that and were to say the least, very succesful. Before the marriage with Volvo, Valmet reached around 2% marketshare at the most in Sweden. Then they put the VolvoBM-label together with Valmet on their tractors (to be honest, that was about how much Volvo you had on those tractors!) and red paint, and they reached 20% and more very soon.
So there you have proof that JoeinTX´s theory also is right.
A little true story:
A collegue of mine once tried to sell a Valmet up north in Sweden (yes, I did work for Valmet at that time -80 - -82). The customer was very stubborn and told my collegue again and again that he didn´t want no Valmet. So he thought he had to ask the customer for the real reason for this. The customer then told him that he would never in his life consider buying a foreign tractor. He had been driving swedish tractors all his life so, also this time he would buy a Ford!
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Post by leemsutton on Jun 18, 2002 10:38:07 GMT 1
hhhmmm interesting but unfortunately does not happen here at our farm.
My grandfather was a Massey man through and through but even he realised he made a mistake when he bought a MF 399 Hiline in 1990. When he passed away and my father took over he moved from MF to Case for 2 reasons:
1. The 399, 2680, 690, 3125 and the MF 32 combine were all useless.
2. The Case dealer is only 3 miles down the road instead of 20 miles for the MF dealer. So if the CASE'S broke down as much as the MF's then the dealer was more local.
However now that I am looking after the machinery side of things I would definately be looking at the likes of Valtra, Renault and probably Fendt again when its time to change. In January we moved away from a big Case tractor to Claas challenger and I can see us moving away from Case for the smaller tractors. Not that they have been a problem but I think their technology is lacking slightly when compared to the likes of Fendt.
So we dont have a brand loyality at all here. Our combine for the current season is a hired NH but next year will be a Claas.
One thing we have learned over the years is that if you stick to one brand then you miss out on new technology and also in some instances end up paying over the odds for equipment.
Lee
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Post by eppie on Jun 18, 2002 15:47:03 GMT 1
What about the brands with most commercial activities?? In Holland, here, these are Case, Fendt and John Deere. Is it just that they can afford a full-color full-page sized ad, or is that actually the reason they grew so big??
Hey, Leemsutton, we still have a Deutz D50 for stationary work
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Post by Red_Painter on Jun 18, 2002 19:52:08 GMT 1
Like JoeinTX commented, what one grew up with has alot to do with brand loyalty. If they had good equipment and a good dealer there's a chance the loyalty was pretty well set.
When HPP talked about the person who was going to buy a Ford instead of a Valmet, it reminds me of comments made during different mergers where farmers buying lets say IH or AC, said they would switch to John Deere when their old line disappeared rather than deal with the new company.
Image should be considered as a factor. John Deere is the marketer of marketers in the business, and they have a strong dealer presence. They have really built an image that transfers beyond agriculture. It seems to me, that there is a certain number of Deere owners (a small minority though) who look upon Deere equipment as a status symbol. I have nothing against Deere equipment. We own some and really like it, but I think there are some owners of other brands who get a little upset, to say the least, with those green underwear guys who can see only green and buy only green because it's green with a deer on the side. There are guys who would own anything but a Deere too.
I think that 40years ago there used to be more product loyalty than today, but today there aren't many who would not change brands if a better machine was out there. Here, the Steiger and Axial Flow were purchased by alot of former JD guys especially in the 80's.
It's the money that keeps product development going and big financially strong companies can do this better and gain or regain market share. Sometimes smaller companies can come up with some good equipment, but getting good dealership representation and image recognition is hard.
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Post by Xavier on Jun 18, 2002 20:05:42 GMT 1
Loyalty to brand has one side good for the farmer, you have more volume in the dealer and you would be able to accelerate the repairs, you will be first than others. But when you want to buy a new machine you are sold to the dealer, if your loyalty is real you don't want to change, you don't get prize for other make, and the prize of your brand isn't quite low than it could be. At this time i'm loyalty to Deutz, but... Sorry F6L913 (ja ho saps)  |
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Post by leemsutton on Jun 18, 2002 21:23:40 GMT 1
If your loyal to a brand then you definately do not get the best prices as the dealer turns up in your yard knowing full well that your going to buy his brand and no other.
So if he's a real salesmen then he will keep the price higher than he would for a potential new customer. If you believe he gives you the best deal as your a loyal customer then I am afraid the word 'gullable' springs to mind.
A sales guy with get more recognition by getting a new customer from another brand than he would from keeping you buying as you have done for the previous 15 years or so. Why? Because their customer base will be expanding with new customers instead of staying level with existing customers.
A typical example of this is my friend: He runs NH's but in January he looked at other makes as well, around the 170hp mark. He went to JD and they subsequently quoted for a 7810 with TLS at £42,000. Now his neighbour is a complete deereoid and has been for the last few years. He actually bought a 7810 WITHOUT TLS in december for £46,000!
That to me says it all. JD wanted the new custom and made sure they got it, while taking liberties with there existing reliable, loyal customers.
And before anybody asks where the dealer was - no it was not around here it was outer london area
Lee
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Post by kenjar on Jun 18, 2002 21:58:36 GMT 1
It seems that brand loyalty was more prevalent in the years 1960's and prior. I know that Deere's share really took off in the 1970's, people were trading in their usual brand for a Deere. One reason was the Deere cab, which were quieter and provided a better view than what the competitors had.
Nowadays, you have a mixture, those who are loyal to one brand and others who shop around.
Red_Painter is right, some people think that owning a Deere gives them a certain status. I have heard that some of the Fendt folks would fit this cathegory also.
Lee, I have heard the same thing here. For example, the guys trading their Magnums for a JD were given bonuses, while the regular JD guys weren't. Always nice to expand your customer base.
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Post by Laapa on Jun 19, 2002 7:39:49 GMT 1
This reminds me of an old topic on this board where we discussed the merits of keeping a one colored fleet, the advantages of using only a single brand of tractors.
Perhaps someone can find it and make a link to it or something.
I say if you have a good experience with a particular brand in the past, then the sellers are propably going to do a pretty good job to place another on your farm.
It is true dealers sometimes play the "switch brands and get a bonus" game and thus screw loyal customers, but it will be remebered, by the loyal customer, next time a competitor runs a similar campaign.
... and if you thought the machine was worth what you paid for it in the first place, then it is still a worthwhile deal whatever the next guy pays.
Wherever you look you won't always win! Someone will always get a cheaper tractor, a better crop or whatever deal.
If you win a million $ on the lottery, be happy. You did not lose a million just beacuse someone else won two!
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Post by HPP on Jun 19, 2002 9:23:47 GMT 1
Red_Painter says that status might be involved. Not in general maybe but yes, of course it´s involved!
Imagine the group of directors sitting in the sauna! They are naked, so there´s no way they can signal status with clothing or anything like that (let´s say they have towels to protect themselves from showing how small they really are!). Now they start to discuss what cars they drive. Some of the guys tells they drive Mercedes, some other BMW:s. Maybe one has a Jaguar. Could you then imagine the feeling the guy who drives a Skoda, or even Opel, gets when he has to tell what he drives?
Of course status is involved!
And the skill of the marketing-staff. I´ve always claimed that JD are world champions in marketing (in our line of business that is). Just take "The Furrow", a beautiful tool. I once (seems like a hundred years ago!) was involved i a market research for The Furrow. One of the interesting results that came up when interviewing farmers about this magazine was that most of them didn´t regard it as a JD product! It all sunk in to the readers mind without him being totally aware of it!
None of the farmers I interviewed were aware of that 50% of the magazine was JD ads.
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Post by leemsutton on Jun 19, 2002 9:36:42 GMT 1
Our copy of the furrow always ends up in the bin as there is nothing worthwhile in there. Its JD's go at suggestive marketing.
Many people soon fall out of the trance when the price is mentioned.
Deere by name Deere by nature!
Although the MF version is just as bad!
Lee
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It's very obvious in some parts of the US. Here, this is AC or Ford or Case country. Most of the dealers in the area going back 50 years or so have sold either AC/Gleaner, Ford/New Holland, or Case/Farmall, International. There are JD and MF dealers and others around in decent number-but the small-time, "mom and pop," dealers in areas where no one else will go are the AGCO and New Holland guys for the most part. I know that this has to go back many decades based upon who was strong here in the "old days" and who wasn't. One won't see much new JD, or MF, or foreign makes here. The newest combine I"ve seen in the area was a Gleaner. The newest tractor was a New Holland. Anyone else notice this?