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Post by F6L913 on May 19, 2002 11:44:10 GMT 1
Hey Renze,
You're right and i don't think these tractor are Deutz at all. They have only the paint and the engine. My tractor is a Deutz DX3700, i think only available in spain and portugal, and have Carraro tranny and Deutz engine. It's the same tranny as in the Renault, Case 2100 series and Valtra 3000 series.
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Post by eppie on May 19, 2002 18:38:04 GMT 1
Our D50 has no ZF tranny, but a real Deutz one!! that's a long time ago...
It has no year of manufacture on the type plate, so its probably a prototype. it has a Bosch hitch.
probably built in 1962, because the 712 series engines were placed first in tractors since 1962. We use it mainly for driving the irrigation pump, because of the air cooled engine. Sometimes we use it for transport or for the tedder or rake.
P.S. The D50 is for sale.
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Post by paddyland on May 21, 2002 12:56:58 GMT 1
I know one contractor that was using a same Rubin on Potato work running 24hrs and he said same are good as long as you stick by the oil change intervals. He had quiet a few same and deutz tractors and said they never really gave trouble.
So far i have not really heard anything good said about the Agrotron since it was launched lots of tranny trouble. Another contractor had a Deutz 6.16 screwed up and it went for six years with over 10000 hours on and i never heard of it giving much trouble.
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Post by eppie on May 21, 2002 14:28:01 GMT 1
I think you can say that of all newer tractors. The Agrotron with tranny problems, the Fendts blowing away the head gaskets of the newer versions of MWM engines, the Case with computer trouble. ..moresh*t..more....evenmoresh*t...
All troubles are caused by a process, i call it the "plastification" of tractors. more plastics, more computers, more trouble...
They say newer versions (Mk3) agrotrons are lots better.
By the way: what agrotron do you talk about: the 150 to 260 hp models or the 80 to 150 hp?? less150hp agrotron have ZF, 150+ have Same transmissions.
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Post by paddyland on May 21, 2002 17:22:39 GMT 1
The ones i have heard about tend to be 130 to 150hp be interesting to see how the stepless does and are there many loyal same, deutz users left in the uk or has everyone gone to the big four
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Post by eppie on May 21, 2002 19:46:17 GMT 1
Why do the Deutz, and as i have heard, the Case CS, having transmission trouble, and the Fendt 500 series not??
I think its the same as Ursus and Zetor/ZTS
They use the same (Zetor developed) transmission, but Ursus uses lower quality steel.
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Post by F6L913 on May 21, 2002 20:22:48 GMT 1
Hey Renze,
The 230-260 have ZF trans. not Same.
There's a 200 in my town. No problems in the tranny yet.
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Post by eppie on May 21, 2002 22:03:45 GMT 1
Ah..
I was thinking the 230 and 260 had the Same 9 step powershift..
You must be right, The 230 and 260 use probably the same tranny as the Fendt 800 series, including torque converter.
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Post by HPP on May 22, 2002 8:47:12 GMT 1
Why do some have problems and others not? Well, if you buy your trannie from say ZF you can pick different models of the trannie to different sizes of tractors. As for the Fendt 800:s and the Agrotrons I don´t know what different ZF models they use, but I can give an example from way back when:
The Fendt Favorit 612 with 120 Hp (the first version of 612) used the same transmission from ZF as the IH 1455 with 145 Hp. You could see the same difference when you checked the models of front axels.
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Post by HPP on May 22, 2002 8:55:25 GMT 1
PS:
The 800:s don´t carry torque converters, it´s a turbo clutch. In 818 - 824 it´s a "Variofill" turboclutch. In the 816 a normal one.
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Post by paddyland on May 23, 2002 12:55:09 GMT 1
Perhaps the turbomatic clutch took some of the strain out of the load on the transmission?
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Post by HPP on May 23, 2002 15:10:17 GMT 1
Yes, it did. Both in the Fendt and in the IH, as an option.
This I consider is the main advantage of the Turbomatic. The better riding-comfort is what you get as a bonus.
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Post by eppie on May 23, 2002 20:03:50 GMT 1
Yes, some vibrations are damped by the torque converter, but the torque on the ingoing shaft of the tranny (outgoing shaft of T.C.) is bigger than engine torque.
I dont know what counts most.
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Post by HPP on May 24, 2002 8:06:35 GMT 1
Hey Renze,
you shouldn´t mix those two things.
Turbo clutch is one thing and torque converter another.
With the torque converter you are right, the one in the Favorit 600:s doubled the engine torque (at the moment of starting up). But the "normal Turbomatic" doesn´t multiply the torque from the engine to the tranny.
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Post by eppie on May 24, 2002 19:28:26 GMT 1
Sorry, the difference is only one 'E'
I have misread it.
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