new Renaults

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The new Renaults have some "MASSEY FERGUSON ingredients" haven't they. Now they have also the automatic transmission and a spool valve joystick in the armrest....like MF has...why didn;t they (Renault) not introduce the Automatic transmission earlier?

Jarno Reulink

Holland

[leemsutton]

I like the new renaults a lot and have added them to my list with valtra as replacements for my 5150's when the time is right. I have heard many good things about renaults going back about 10 years.

they are priced well as well.

Lee

[eppie]

Renault has the Deere, Iveco, Perkins, and Deutz engines, and the MF dynashift or Funk/JD powershift. (and an old 16/16 hi/lo of themselves.) Then why dont you buy an original product? Those tractors take their identity only from tractors of 10 - 20 years ago, and of the automobile division.

Renault fills a market for orange painted tractors with that particular name. If the same product would be painted blue and called, let's say, 'Chiraq' instead of Renault, they wont stand a chance, and you wouldn't buy one, i think.

Just like the terracotta coloured NH's, they also filled a market segment until the market closes together, and the gap-fillers are no more needed.
I'd say renault is just a screwdriver factory.

P.S. I do not say anything about the quality of a Renault, they build good stuff, but i'd like them to do that on their own instead of bolting other's parts onto a frame .

[[e-mail]]

I disagree with your post Mr. Renze. I would like to know how many brands have a full range of tractors like Renault sells and do not share components from other manufacturers. Honestly, really interested about that.

Besides you seem to forget some facts. Renault has made a lot for farmers. Their tractors are thought from the cab and for the driver. The Ares cab is a masterpiece of Industrial Design. Simply wider than the rest of cabs in the market. Take a seat in a JD 6020, then jump into a Renault Ares cab. I´m sure anyone can tell the difference. Then drive that tractor and feel the hydrostable cab.
I could talk a lot about Renault but I think these are enough reasons to think Renault should survive...  ;DAlthough they are using high quality components made by other makers...

[leemsutton]

Renze,

The reason why renault machines appeal to me is because they have other manufacturers products because they are tried and tested and reliable. You get all that at a lower cost which is what it's all about at the moment when we are trying to forward sell wheat at £58 per tonne.

Good points though.

Lee

[eppie]

European A:

It's the same thing as with German and French cars in the 30's. lovers of German cars say they like the ruggedness of the wheel suspension and springs, the French cars are weak. French car lovers say the germans build rough cars, they like the smoother suspension of the french cars.

It all fits into the profile I described in my previous post, Renault fills a market segment for typical French tractors.  

And about the 6020 vs. the Ares: you should try the Deere with optional cab suspension, the Hydrostable is also optional on most Renaults. Compare both tractors if they have the same optional stuff.

[JoeinTX]

  Even though I've never laid eyes on one, I really like what the Renaults look to be.  Besides,  there's nothing wrong with using others parts to build their tractor.  Massey Ferguson......They've been using the Perkins for decades and now they share engineering with Landini and transmissions with Fendt.  Are MF tractors no longer credible?  JD-small tractors coming from Belarus.  CNH-an absolute mix-match with Case, International, Ford,  New Holland, Fiat, and Steyr components all put into one basic platform.  Claas-selling the Challenger for years and years with absolutely no input of their into it.  Does this now also make them less desirable?  Renault is doing exactly what any well run independent company should do-outsource to the best supplier of the most reliable part available at the best price.  I wish we had the Renaults here.  While they would probably never be accepted, it would be nice to have another alternative to the "Big Three"............

[Woodbeef]

Yep,I agree with the Tejano there!!

Why not buy something that is already proven,if you want to? If it helps Renault keep its prices down I'm all for them doing it. Years ago they did away with Renault engines,now they cooperate with MF on trannies and rear ends(Gima).Does this make the tractors any worse because of out sourcing? By using OEM parts,Renault frees up R&D $$$$ for other projects.

Let's face it badge-engineering goes deeper than just the paint color in todays global economy!!

[[e-mail]]

I agree with the Tejano and the Canadian

Renze, To be honest I don´t know too much about the suspension for the 6020 Series but I have serious doubts about that system being better than the one patented by Renault (by the way you can choose the smoothness on the Hydrostable cab - 3 different sets for Germans, French, Spanish, British,... ;D). Many farmers and professional press have claimed the Renault Hydrostable Cab is the best system by far.

Anyway it does not seem to be clear the advantages of Renault tractors being designed at the Renault Technocentre, where all Renault vehicles are designed (cars, trucks, tractors,...). The Ares cab is superb because of the space available, visibility, distribution of controls, light,... Dreyfuss Associates have made a real good job with John Deere tractors for a long time but the 6020 Series cab is simply too small (cage effect I would say...) when compared to the Ares one.  

[Xavier]

Ok, i don't want to criticize the Renaults, i haven't drove any, and they like me. The technical details seems good, and the suspension is a good thing for the farmers back, if it don't get dizzy you.

But the question is Renault is one of the 3 makes most selled in the french market, but what about the others markets is a secondary make at mostly of them. You see Valtra number one in Finland but quite good selled in Sweden, Germany,...

Could it be some patriotic reason for this, or is Renault too french for the others?

Its very normal that french give preferences for a make that give jobs for many people of his country.

Are the Renault at the same level that JD, CNH, MF,...?

[eppie]

Yes, Xavier, i think Renault is on the same level as the big ones.

To the other guys out there: making sharp points improve the discussion.

[Woodbeef]

hey European,

I agree totally with you on the new cramped feeling Deere cab!! I find that it also has less leg room too!

[eppie]

Hey Woodbeef,

I partly agree with you, freeing money by buying OEM parts. The R&D costs are now shared by MF and Renault, but for the engines and so, they still have to pay, the development costs for those engines are within the resale price. JD, Perkins, Iveco, Deutz would be crazy if they sold their engines for the cost price plus some profit. They wont see their development costs back then.

Leemsutton:

the upper text is also for you.. Why would the suppliers sell engines and trannies to Renault for less money than they will earn when selling complete tractors built by themselves?? Your logic is not complete at this point.

[leemsutton]

Well the prices between a Renault and Massey are not that different. On a 100hp model there is £1,000 difference with the Renault being cheaper but I think that was because I would have been a new customer and they wanted to get me. However the price difference between the JD and Renault is appro £4,000 and its the same engine with a better cab!

£4,000 is a lot of money to save

Lee

[eppie]

Yes, Leemsutton, that's quite some money. But just the same engine, the rest is different. For this particular tractor, your rule counts.

But if you want to make a good compare, buy their 60-80-100-120-150-180-230-260 hp models, all with same options, and then compare. Manufacturers are known for lowering the prices on models that are of strategic importance to enter a market.