super steer genesis

[CurtUSA]

I was reading some some misconceptions about super steer on an earlier page,  Super steer will out steer Jd and Case on all tread settings except the clear narrowest settings as you widen the front wheels on a Genesis the shorter it will turn; to the point it will out steer a twd tractor.  Jd always bragged about there long wheel base and the benefits it gave for ride and comfort, but to even compete with super steer they had to shorten there wheel base. The design  of the Jd and Case had to be  compromised to allow for a narrow frame to turn short that is why there engines are so high in the frame " not because it is a better  design or more efficient ".  It is very hard to balance these style of tractors due to the see-saw effect when you add weight to the front end you in return are subtracting it from the rear axle, where as the Genesis design allows the weight added to the front to remain on the front and not take away from the rear. Jd has always been the masters of taking a disadvantage and featuring it ,for example: it was good in the 80's to have long wheel base for better ride now in the new millenium its ok to have a short wheelbase and from what I have been reading on here they have almost everyone convinced of it.  

[[e-mail]]

Going slightly at a tangent;

Back in the late eighties a number of manufacturers brought out 6cyl long wheelbase 100hp models - Ford 7910/7810, JD6506, Massey 699, DB-Case 1690, etc. - to replace or augment their 4cyl turbo short wheelbase models.

Does anyone know the reason why? Was it the wheelbase or the de-rated 6 cylinder engine that had a real or perceived advantage over the previous "standard"?

I know the 7810 was a huge success for Ford at the time - as the 7840 and TS115 have been since, but I'm not clear on the exact advantage it has over the 7610.

Anyone any thoughts?

[[e-mail]]

Don't the 6 cil have a better reputation to have a longer life, are stronger with less engine rpm, heavier in the front to lift heavier equipement and the machines are more "simple" (without a turbo) so costs for repare will be less.  I think.

When I look at the supersteer in the low-hp-tractors (TNP), there I see a large wheelbase, a high-tech(complicated???) construction with speedsensors etc. But it's working very good!
Arno

[[e-mail]]

six cylinders can have longer life than on without Turbo, but it totally depends on the driver, when the engine is cold. A six cylinder engine is also more like a status symbol to some farmers, than a rational decision. (at least, in the Netherlands) mainly because of the sound.

I have experienced that a 7710 pulls much better on low rpm than a 7840. I think the 7840 pulls even worse on 1200 rpm than a non-turbo 4 cylinder.

By the way, this is not about Super Steer anymore...

[[e-mail]]

About the long bonnets in the 80´s John Deeres and Fords, the location of the fuel tank was fundamental.

Besides, traditionally old American tractors have had taller bonnets than the rest because of the "tri-cycle" row crop option (very popular in North America some years ago). One of these manufacturers´ reason for designing the conventional models with this height could be the feeling of a "bigger" tractor. This bonnet height clearly distinguesed an International from a Renault tractor (for instance) in the early 80´s.

Nowadays the main difference between European and American models is the sloping bonnet.

[paddyland]

Six cylinders are suppose to hold their power longer than a four cylinder and with non turbo 6s there is always the option of adding a turbo making it cheaper than factory fitted turbo models eg JD6506 v 6800 and NH7840 v 8340.

[Si]

Right now the facts: The Case will outsteer the NH on tyre sizes 14.9R30 & 16.9 R30 with 60 64 68 & 72 inch wheel settings: The NH outsteers the Case on the same tyres for 76 80 84 88 inch settings. Go to 480/70 R30 tyres The Case outsteers The NH on 60 64 68 72 76 inch settings, the New Holland wins on 80 84 & 86 inch settings. Figures taken from MX Magnuum product presentation and New Holland Advertising Literature (31867043, 129625)
Is that clear?
Cheers
Simon

[[e-mail]]

Here in the Netherlands, we have NH models 8240 and JD models 6600.

You did'nt mentioned them. Or are these models just for Europe??

[leemsutton]

we get them in the uk as well but they are few and far between. i only know of one 8240 and only one 6600.

dont know why though!

Lee

[paddyland]

We use a JD6600 on our farm and there are quite a few about but the 6900 really took off because of the bigger frame for heavier going. As for 8240s they didnt enjoy the same sucess as the 8340 but i worked on one farm with two and they had over 6000 hours and seemed to be going alright

[[e-mail]]

I worked for an agricultural contractor, who had 7840 and 8240. Both tractors needed some transmission overhauls at about 7000 hrs.

I think the old Dual Power is better, my favorite Ford is a 6610 generation II with MFWD. They change gears a lot easier than the heavier transmission like used in the 7710 and 8210 i drove with.