Claas and the Omaha Combine Factory....

[Woodbeef]

Interesting point about Claas buying out the Lexion Factory in Nebraska. I'm having a bit of trouble understanding why they would want to. Do they figure there is enough of a market for them to go it on their own over here? Then on the other hand they could convert part of it for other products that are sold here too. Which I think would make more sence then just building combines.

Could the Xerion actually replace the Challenger?

['Guest']

Cant see the xerion replacing the challenger at all - can you? It can't possibly. People go to tracks for a reason so why would they think a wheeled tractor would suffice. its just happened to us and we wont go back to wheels even though we are yet to find a track machine.

as for the factory - watch this space. i've got a friend pretty high up in claas uk.

['Guest']

Those weak minds that has at one time been duped, by Cats B.S. about groundpressure, into buying tracks will be easy enough for Claas to turn into Xerion-users.
If they have at one time payed a terribly expensive machine that can be used for very few applications, why not buy a terribly expensive machine that can be used for a ridiculus amount of applications.
A machine that also have superior driver enviroment (vista-cab vs. 1980s style bulldozer), transmission (CVT vs. the jerkiest powershift on the market), and propulsion (wheels vs. tracks).

['Guest']

Nothing personal mr Sutton.
I just don't buy the idea that tracks would work nearly as well as they are claimed to be, or as well as a good wheeled tractor.

[Woodbeef]

Hey Keep on rollin'

Obviusly you have never been in the predicament where you can not put enough power to the ground with a wheeled tractor,eh?

['Guest']

Keep on rollin,

what on earth are you on about, as woodbeef said you obviously have very little idea about power loss. explain this then:

280hp wheeled tractor has a total footprint of 1.6metres squared (proven fact on 710 rear tyres and 540 front tyres)

280hp tracked machine has atotal footprint of 2.72metres squared (proven fact on 24 inch tracks)

surely even you must be able to see that same hp but more footprint!!!!! come on einstien i can hear you brain ticking!

read the december issue of profi international on power loss from the flywheel to the drawbar. its astonishing! mx270 (280hp at engine), 193hp on the drawbar!!!!

JD 8410 (270hp at engine), 219 at drawbar.

In my personal opnion anything over 200 hp at the engine cannot get the power out through the wheels effectively. to much is lost!

[[e-mail]]

Congratulations to your purchase. I'm curios what factors made you go with the tracked machine. groundpressure, power to the ground, lighter machine.

What other tractors did you choose betweeen, articulated, quadtrack, MXMagnum/8020?

Also, is not the JD 8520T smaller than the 75E?

['Guest']

we looked at everything last year: mx270, 8410, claas 55 + 75, fendt 926, massey, ford etc and bought a mx270 cause it was the highest hp available at the time.
unfortunately 12 months down the line the mx has gone and been replaced by the 75 e

obviously we've gone second hand on the tracked machine as it was 105,000 uk pounds new. we went from wheels to tracks because of traction problems. we ballasted the mx and everything which took it up to 14.3 tonnes but it made no difference. nothing wrong with the tractor at all. if anything i still think it the best on th emarket in its power range.

the 75 will give us a max psi of around 6 and mor epower to the ground. hopefully we will have to much power there as its 340 at the engine and we need 260 on the drawbar. should be ok.

the 8520 T is exactly what we needed really as it wa snot as wide as the 75 or heavy. its max power is 335hp, but unfortunately price wins every time here with us

['Guest']

Dear mr Sutton. the last thing I wish to do is offend a fellow poster.
Woodbeef coined the term "Deeroids" for people who will praise Green machinery above all, for better or worse often whithout very good agruments. I'm sure you will agree from reading other discussion boards that trere are plenty of "trackoids" out there as well. I kind of intended my post to be aimed at those.
You seem like a very intelligent person and I'm sure you had good reasons for your purchase.
However, as far as the size of the footprint you propably know as well as me that "total weight/total area" is far from the whole truth. Each roller on the track will produce pressure points in the soil and if not correctly ballanced those presssure points will be considerable (JD brings up this point in their "Tracks vs. Wheels" sales litterature).
This would be espesially true on a RC Challenger or JD 8010T type tractor where the middle idler wheels cannot move vertically as they can on the E-series or 9000T. And the shorter "wheelbase" of the smaller crawlers does not help things.
As far as having poblems getting power to the ground, sure I have. This happens mostly doing heavy tillage on wet topsoil, especially if it has been cultivated. Only way to pull trough (of course I should stay home in those situations, but sometimes time is scarse) is to get more aggressive tyres and load up the machine. Larger footprint would only make things worse (Known fact it is a weakpoint of tracks, and it is when we need power the most). Perhaps an aggressive-steel-track 25 tonnes bulldozer would pull through but that does not seem reasonable.
As far as having a limited number of applications, Yes I have seen people spray, fertilize and do road transport with crawlers but i'd avoid it any way I can for obvious reasons.

['Guest']

Well that told me didn't it!

['Guest']

I'm finding this discussion very informative. I must borrow a copy of the December Profi and follow up on the issues raised.

Question for Lee.

What do you need 260hp on the drawbar for?

['Guest']

For a 3 metre Simba Solo cultivator. Excellent machine but very power hungary on our soils. Check out www.simba.co.uk and go to the products link then to solo.

basically it comprises of 4 cultivators in one thus saving on time, money, bette rfor the environment etc.

they do make 4.5 metre and 6 metre models. the guys on the 4.5 metre models are running them behind challenger 95's and quadtrack 440's.

the 6 metre guys can only use the cultivators on light soil behind the 440's

['Guest']

I've seen those Simba solo. Looks like good machines doing a nice job.
Really need that big a tractor for 3 m though?
What type of seeder do you use after it?

(hmmm... we seem to have drifted a bit from the original subject by now.)

[[e-mail]]

you really need 100hp pe rmetre with the solo cultivators. although this depend son soil type. lighter soils then about 80 hp and metre would do. but most of our work is on heavier soils so we need about 260 on th edrawbar which means about 320+ at the engine.

we use a vaderstad rapid drill after the cultivator because it is a cultivator drill. it has a set of disc's infront of the seeding mechanism www.vaderstad.com
its a 4 metre version and that needs about 220 hp to pull it effectively although i must admit i am not totally convinced of it as i think the simba freeflow drill suits a minimal cultivation system while the vaderstad is more of a plough based drill.

any opnions on that?

on ething is for sure though all this new kit does take some bloody pulling!

[Laapa]

Cant really ask me about Väderstad vs. other brands. As you know they are made right here in Sweden and I have close friends there (they never give me any gossip though...) so I am quite bias on the subject by now.

Seriously I think we might eventually get a 4 m Vaderstad Rapid Combi-drill ourselves soon. Perhaps with a front-tiller implement to put in the front 3pt hitch.

220 hp sounds like a lot of hp for a 4m Rapid-drill.
I did a project for the Vaderstad and Överrum (now owned by Konskilde) companies and i belive avg. hp for 4m was about 160.
It is tue that it is a more versatile machine than a strict no/min. till drill.

The Vaderstad Rapid and (Konskilde) Överrum drills dominate the drill market in Sweden. Simba (as well as Lemken, Amazone and other foregin brands) have virtually no representation at all so I really don't know.

Would like to see a picture sometime of your big crawler pulling such a small (only 4m) drill.