All hail the new king........

[JoeinTX]

     I hold my tongue in many discussions, but I must say how much I love the pics of the "Challenger" Agco equipment!!!  While I enjoy and respect all farm equipment my true allegiances are with the AGCO family.  We've just seen the AGCO family make a huge leap.  These are some of the most emotion bringing pictures of any new pieces I've seen in a good while.  The lasting image of Massey Ferguson, the ghost of Allis-Chalmers, and the whimper of White all rolled into one fine machine painted unmissable yellow with a Cat engine.  They almost make me think of what Minneapolis-Moline would be if it still survived today.  God bless the "Modern Machinery."  Excuse me if I seem rambling.  I was just a little more surprised by these images than I at first imagined.  The best engine available (Cat), the best combine available (Massey or Claas), and the best dealer network there is....... Where's the downside to all this!

['Guest']

The downside so far seems to be in Harzewinkle, Germany (where Claas is located and the Valmet's engine factories.)
So far, it seems they are the ones getting the bad end of this deal. (though there will propably be a few changes still before this is over).
How about the Dronningborg buildt combines (MF, Deutz, Fendt)? Will they have Cat-engines as well?

[Woodbeef]

Hey Joe you should jump right in when ever you feel like it!! It will make things more interesting around here.!


Yes,I agree with you on a giant leap for Agco,but at what future price? Cat has already shown that any company smaller than themselves is expendable,even ones that they are business partners with!! I'm not totally convinced that Cat makes the best engines in the world for every application out there. Yes,some they do work very good in,but do they work as good for everything?

[[e-mail]]

I have two tractors and one combine. One tractor and the combine are Deutz. I bought they for its engine. Deutz is the best engine. If one day Deutz-Fahr equipment will be powered by CAT i think i'll never buy another Deutz. And i think most people in europe don't like CAT engines. The CAT isn't a good engine, it only have the name, i have a friend that works with heavy industrial equipment and says that a Komatsu always make 10000 hours more than a CAT. And finally a Deutz is more fuel efficient than any other engine.

[[e-mail]]

Are those Deutz-engines of yours aircooled? They were very fuel efficient at their time but as I understand it, Deutz had to abandon the concept beacuse they were not enviromental-friendly enough (new rules in the EU). Too much emmissions.
Nowadays Deutz use watercooled machines. (Please let me know if I'm wrong.)
I suppose there is no reason why Deutz's watercooled engines would not be great as well.

It seems to me the AGCO-products that will use the Cat-engines will mainly be for the american market, over there I'd say Cat is above all suspiscion as far as making inferior engines, they are EVERYWHERE. If us europeans have doubts about them, it propably won't effect their totals sales much.

By the way, why should Deutz become Cat powered. Did they join AGCO and I missed it?

[[e-mail]]

There is another aspect of this deal that I'm suprised has not surfaced here.

Cat handing over it's ag-division to AGCO means the competition for us, the customers will thin out.
Only a few years ago there were, for instance, Red, Blue, Green, Yellow and ehhh...  Agco's mix of colors all fighting each other (and a bunch of others, but lets keep it simple). Now Red and Blue build machines together, as are Cat and acgo.

Ultimately this means less selection for us, the customers. Less competition for the producers. Higher prices. etc. etc. etc.

[Woodbeef]

Agco and SD-F have been in bed together for awhile,actually since the beginings of Agco to a certain extent. SD-F owns part of Agco,and Agco owns Deutz-South America. They are 50-50 owners of the new North American distribution company for SD-F. Massey is now using Same O&V tractors,some of the Deutz combines come from Dronningborg. So if you could find one end and totally unravel this trail,we might then know how involved with each other they are!

Would SD-F ever switch completely to Cat/Perkins power? I sure hope not MWM  makes some good engines!! What about the O&V tractors that need the compactness of an Air-Cooled engine?

As for your less competition comment. Yes,I agree with you on that one. We must support the independants,so they can survive and prosper. Look at how much technology comes from them,and not the majors!!

[[e-mail]]

Komatsu designs and builds excellent heavy equipment but some friends of mine operate earthmovers and they would never changed a Caterpillar engine. I think Cat engine is one of the best engines currently available. Quality products. Anyway their disadvantages are price and consumption where european engines are better.

I must say Deutz used to power most of construction machines in the 70´s and 80´s (Poclain, O&K, Atlas to name a few). Good engines.

Please, correct me if I´m wrong