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Post by Woodbeef on Dec 19, 2001 12:18:17 GMT 1
Now that the dust is somewhat starting to settle over the MT700 series news,what is going to happen to Claas in this deal? Afterall they have worked to make a nice little niche market for the green and white Challengers. I doubt very much if Agco will supply them after their agreement with Cat is up. Where else can they go for a replacement machine?
This deal so far seems to be good for Cat and Agco,but not Claas! I guess only time will tell!!
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Post by AgMachinery on Dec 19, 2001 19:35:22 GMT 1
According to Robert Ratliff what happens to Claas is the bussiness of Cat. They have an agreement, and there is no agreement between Agco and Cat. So if Cat wants to sell Challengers to Claas that shouldn't be a problem. Well, legally that is. I agree, Agco will not like it all. (But don't be suprised if the whole agreement between Claas en Cat falls apart. I've heard that the whole understanding between these two isn't as good as it once was.
The same strange thing is going to happen in the US. Cat still has an agreement with Claas to sell combines, Agco can sell their combines trough the Cat dealer network. That will be a strange war to fight i think...
By the way Agco also bought the TM800 which will be available in the first half of 2002. Tractors up to 500 hp.
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Post by Laapa on Dec 21, 2001 16:08:24 GMT 1
Propably won't happen, but how difficult would it be for Cat to retool their new Nebraska factory to build MF combines? The new MF Cerea machine from the Dronningborg-factory looks like a good machine.
Doesn't sound likely, Cat invested a lot in the Lexion name and concept.
Some people I spoke to at Claas before said they were suprised by Fendt being bought by AGCO. Traditionally a lot of german farmers who drive Claas hve Fendt combines and Claas dealers sell that brand of tractor (untill AGCO got a hold of Fendt). Now a lot of Claas dealers also sell Valtra.
Claas people would rather have seen Cat go into Fendt to "keep it in the family".
I doubt Fendt-owners are very keen to buy Cat(/Claas/Agco) crawlers. The crawlers are good machines in their way, solid and rugged, not quite the high-tech aura of Fendt.
Claas, Fendt and Valtra. Whatever will happen to the old independents?
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Post by 'Guest' on Dec 22, 2001 19:21:50 GMT 1
Before AGCO bought Fendt I always thought a joint-venture or a merge between Fendt & Claas would be the ideal situation. Reasons:
1. Dealers: as you said dealers were selling both brands in Germany (if you have a look at an European 80´s Claas brochure - Dominator, for instance - you can see a picture of a dealer office with the wall full of Fendt brochures). As far as I know one of the reasons to sell Fendt combines was the lack of this kind of machines in Fendt dealers, after AGCO arrived. This fact would explain these Dronninborg-built combines were initially sold in Germany.
2. Both Fendt and Claas design and built high-technology machines.
I always thought CAT/Claas joint-venture would be the first Caterpillar´s movement in Ag business. By joining Claas they would have access to high technology combines and could sell Cat products in Europe from farm equipment dealers. Cat would rely on their own previous dealers for North America. Finally they would buy Claas to access Europe... It looks like some or all of the following facts happened:
1. American Cat dealers were not good enough
2. Claas was not interested in being bought by Caterpillar
3. Caterpillar wanted a bigger dealership than Claas could offer
About the future of Claas and because of previous reasons (dealers and quality products) I think the logical movement would be a merge between Claas and Valtra. Anyway, I guess all this is much more complicated than we think...
By now all main agricultural equipment manufacturers should be afraid of Cat´s movement, I guess
Please, correct if I am wrong
P.S. My nickname is European, but due to problems with the website I have had to sign like European A
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Post by Laapa on Dec 23, 2001 11:04:48 GMT 1
Someone suggested Cat-Crawlers fitted with Vario-transmissions and painted FENDT-Green as a result of the Cat-Agco deal.
Vario transmissions in such a machine sounds like a god idea, but shouldn't CAT already have acces to the one CLAAS developed for their Xerion machine if they wanted to?
Also, as I understand it, the general principle of the Vario-trannys is not too different from the steering system on Cat's crawlers.
Sounds like an expensive machine anyways...
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Post by 'Guest' on Dec 23, 2001 23:58:46 GMT 1
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Post by Woodbeef on Dec 24, 2001 2:12:30 GMT 1
So far no one is really saying much. The Claas report did say that Cat talked to them before the agreement though. Agco seems to be saying they want to sell in Europe.......but will they?
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Post by oort.mf@tref.nl on Dec 24, 2001 18:12:16 GMT 1
I think it,s good for Agco an Cat. Agco is bigger than Claas. They have a bigger dealernetwork in North America and Europe. And Cat is big engine suplier to Agco (MF-PERKINS)
And the can deliver components to each other. Acgo don,t need Claas becouse the have good combines (Massey, Gleaner) I think we get in the future a yellow painted Gleaner or MF powered by CAT. And MF will use in al equipment Perkins engines. And in the future there will be Fendt vario painted yellow and under the Cat name sold whit cat engines.
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