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Post by JD Kid on Nov 25, 2003 11:07:59 GMT 1
Hi ya O I can see ya a non smoker ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) if the tractor has draft control would the self leveling be tring to over ride the draft control ..and like ya saying on hillsides if the bottom side was rased a 3PL would not be level with the ground that would make seeding or mulching a bitch also it would have to return the main frame of the tractor to almost level to transfer the weight back on to the up hill side to fully use the top driveing wheels .as anyone who has worked hill will tell ya a difflock will do the same .WHY is it the new tractor drivers have soft arses and week hands?? brakeing i'll agree with ya 4 wheels on the ground will make for better brakeing but power hop i have to differ with ya there ..if the front leed was out of wack say 10% would supension of any kind make the power hop go away?? with the right tires and psi ya can make a tractor pull as good as a horny schoolboy get it wrong and ya can't feel ya hands after 10 minutes on the road catch ya JD Kid
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Post by orange on Nov 25, 2003 11:47:46 GMT 1
JD, I did say "reducing power hop", not stopping it ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) Thinking about this again, after another smoke ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) , this system must keep the tractor level in relation to the ground, otherwise it WILL not work with draft implements, so therefore Deere saying it improves braking, steering and reduce power hop is complete cr@p. I can not see this system working fast enough at 20 kph on a rough road or field. On a relatively smooth road/field yes, It will be a little bit like ABS on cars on rough roads ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) ABS is excellent for a smooth road, but you try it on a wet rough road, the ABS can not work fast enough to counter the uneven surface I may be wrong but I think this tractor, in some cases, could be difficult to control at high speeds on rough roads!!
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Post by eppie on Nov 25, 2003 17:52:20 GMT 1
JD kid, you dont need rear axle suspension to get that effect: When we plough with the 6718 with 3 bottom plough, the draft control is constantly struggling with the front axle springs... These front axles have a way to lock them, but hanging 150 kg of ballast at the front is also sufficient.
So, what is the exact definition of "powerhop" ?? There seem to be different understandings.
About the active suspension, i remember Citroen having it on their cars early 90's. It was a system only for freaks, because it added nothing to the driving characteristics. In a long turn, the computer sent out extra oil pressure to the hydropneumatical supension of the wheels in the outer side of the turn, but in a slalom or S-corners, it gave a nasty moment when the computer switched the extra oil pressure from left to right side of the car.
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Post by David W on Nov 25, 2003 18:53:25 GMT 1
Lets face the truth, if it were any good Fentd would have it by now. A good air seat and cab suspension is good enough.
David W.
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Post by JD Kid on Nov 25, 2003 19:06:54 GMT 1
Hi ya's Power hop in my books is when ya get a uncontrolable bounce due to poor set ups this will only happen under hevay load ,wheel slip at this time will also be high ..all can be fixed by better weight's and tire psi or lighting load .. yep renze ya can get it from the front too but i ment if ya got 2 computters 1 will lift the other will drop and be working against each other catch ya JD Kid
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Post by Richard_S on Nov 25, 2003 20:25:33 GMT 1
Renze The thing that happens when you are driving on concrete in 4wd is called 'transmission wind-up'. It is because the front and rear axles are trying to turn at different speeds. It causes fast tyre wear, and is why 4wd should not be used on hard surfaces. You may also find the turning circle is increased, too. Tractors which engage 4wd with the brakes are a real pain in the butt when you try to turn into a narrow gateway - touch the brakes and you turn wider because of the 4wd, leave the brakes off and you are more likely to get between the posts ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) This is also why cars with permanent 4wd have a centre diff. Lesson over.
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Post by eppie on Nov 25, 2003 20:30:10 GMT 1
Read it now: Deere's new way of draft control: Not the lower link arms are raised and lowered intermittently, but the rear suspension !! ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) JD kid, i meant the Zetor front axle (happily) has no computer control, but it is about the same effect. David W, there were so many things that Fendt lacked 20 years ago... What you say about rear axle suspension is the same as Deere drivers said about the vario boxes when Fendt had them just out.
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Post by David W on Nov 25, 2003 21:49:36 GMT 1
Renze, i bet Vario boxes out sell rear suspension 100/1. Rear suspension may have a place in very special cases but will not sell in the way front suspension has.
David W.
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Post by David W on Nov 25, 2003 22:13:09 GMT 1
No, make that 1000/1 or 10,000/1 The only reason for rear suspension is road trafic regulations, the driver sit on an air seat in a cab on springs, the plough etc rides on hydraulic linkage suspension for road work, our trailers ride on drawbars with leaf springs, why would you want to put this complicated, expensive engineering on the end of a tractor that carries the most weight?
David W.
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Post by Voederbietel on Nov 26, 2003 17:10:16 GMT 1
let me guess, david W... you are a real fendt-man. also wearing blinkers.
personally I think rear suspension gives lots more comfort than front. It's just much to expensive to design it, and maybe not really possible in the past.
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Post by David W on Nov 26, 2003 19:13:19 GMT 1
Voederbietel, No not just Fendt, not all that is Fendt is good. I support things that are obviously designed by someone who knows how to and _does_ drive that machine, this I feel happens at Fendt also at JD in the days of the SG2 cab, an excellent "drivers" tractor and way ahead of some other makes at that time. When JD introduced the 6000 range all that was good changed, and after having one for 2 yrs we sold it. The men that designed that tractor were not drivers. Same with JCB tractors and Loadalls, they look great, but drive one for a little while and you soon discover they have many short-commings and that their designers did not spend long in the drivers seat (otherwise it would have been a bit more comfortable!!!). I'm going to the AGCO show (in the UK) tomorrow, I'll be interested in the new MF 74-- Vario, if I like it better than Fendt I may change to a different colour. I have tried Blue, Yellow and Dark Green but did'nt like any of them. At the moment to only other make I liked when I tried them was Valtra but as they are also now AGCO ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png) the UK dealers will have to chang so it is a bad time to buy. David W. Blinkers now back on ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by Jon B on Nov 26, 2003 19:55:00 GMT 1
OK a few thoughts from a guy jumping in too late
Isn't the whole idea of the rear axle suspension to make the ride smoother at higher speeds. And isn't John Deere doing it because JCB has it, and that is one of the only good features on a JCB
As well, transport trucks and floaters have the leaf spring suspension systems. So I guess what I'm wondering is "whats taking tractors so long?"
Power hop I don't like it. But talk to any North American, and they'll say "to cure powerhop, get a tracked tractor"
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Post by Gerard on Nov 26, 2003 20:05:15 GMT 1
I live in north america and i would check tirepressure and probably add weight
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Post by leemsutton on Nov 26, 2003 20:10:00 GMT 1
Gentlemen,
David W is spot on here. The JD rear axle suspension system is for one reason only and that is Regulations. The next thing they will add is an ABS system and then they will become only the SECOND legal tractor on UK roads travelling at over 20mph. To travel in excess of these speeds you need a suspension system and ABS brakes. Once JD have got both then their marketing machine will kick into effect and let everybody know that all other tractors are ILLEGAL and to be honest they are dead right. Its written in black and white for all to read from the Department of Transport.
"The rear axle suspension will aid tillage work because it can be done at higher speeds"
Errr No! Ever tried to operate a tractor at 20mph with a plough? Nice try but the main thing is that there is no trailed equipment whether it be tillage or chemical application etc that can cope with doing high speeds across rough fields especially if they are soil engaging.
The rear suspension is for haulage work with trailers that are set to increase in size with hopefully new stricter road regulations.
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Post by JD Kid on Nov 26, 2003 20:22:53 GMT 1
well said Lee me and you have talked about this before but what will happen when the roading guys wake up and tax tractors and trailers on the road at a full rate to cover upkeep ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? this 20MPH rule when did it come out i have a funny feeling be for the first 40 kph gearbox ..like ya saying if only for high speeds maybe ya can lock it out for feild work ? catch ya JD Kid
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