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Post by JD KID on Nov 29, 2003 8:18:23 GMT 1
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Post by Bernhard on Nov 29, 2003 14:24:00 GMT 1
Would like to help You by Your fight against Ignorance and allknowledgement. But I have not the time to read all my books and brochures more then one time. And I have to store much more things in my head like only technics( but be sure JD, there is a lot stored). Also my english is to bad! . Go ahead! Your on the right way!!!!!!!! Bernhard
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Post by eppie on Nov 29, 2003 17:45:23 GMT 1
Okay then... In a 360 degree turn, you are ABSOLUTELY correct, when the braked wheel stays at one spot, while the other turns around this axis. The absolute tractor speed, measured in the center of the tractor, will not change. But i was talking about driving in a straight line with one wheel blocked, I'll state it this way: Only if you block one wheel (by braking it) and keep it in gear, driving in a straight line, the tractor can speed up, if it has enough power to keep at revs, and IF the rolling wheel has enough grip, and the blocked wheel has enough slip. After your last post, i dont really see at what point or opinion we disagree... Could you please clarify
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Post by Woodbeef on Nov 29, 2003 17:51:48 GMT 1
Whoa......whoa.......whoa.....wait a minute here now Doc......In simple terms explain to me how you can drive straight with one wheel braked??? Even if that wheel skids,as in a skid steer the tractor would not continue in a straight line......now would it? Ok maybe for a couple of inches....but not for any real distance!!
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Post by eppie on Nov 29, 2003 17:54:17 GMT 1
That Deutz is a featherweight tractor, and has a heavy frontloader up front. If you cant drive a straight line with one wheel braked, why could the early tractors with just one rear wheel driven, drive a straight line A rolling wheel that does not slip, has a very big sideway friction. This is not really litterally, but compare it with a car: If you want to make a 180 degree turn on the handbrake (or with a lot of power in a rear wheel driven car) the car, mostly, stops moving sideways as soon as you hit the clutch (rwd) or release the handbrake (fwd) of the car. As soon as the wheels roll, the wheel is getting it's sideway friction back. That's the other benefit of ABS: as long as the wheels roll, you can steer. If the wheels block, you cannot change direction by steering. If you block the wheels in a turn, you wont move anywhere to teh direction you steer to, but just go forward because slipping wheels dont take the sideway force as good as driving wheels.
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Post by Woodbeef on Nov 29, 2003 19:07:09 GMT 1
Hey Doc,
We ain't talking rolling wheels here. We're talking braked wheels.
As for your older tractor with only single track,the other wheel,free wheeled it was not stopped from turning once forward motion was obtained,hence no rolling resistance to steer the tractor away from moving on straight ahead!! Just like try turning with your diff locked.......
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Post by eppie on Nov 29, 2003 19:23:14 GMT 1
driving straight line when braking one wheel, we are talking one braked wheel and one rolling wheel. To be precisely: we are talking about the DIFFERENCE between the rolling wheel and the braked wheel.
As for the old tractor, when only one wheel is driven, the force on the tractor body is applied on one side. In my example with the braked and rotating wheel, forces are applied on both sides, but in reverse direction. By the way, i meant four wheeled tractors with one driven wheel. Not trikes with a driven front wheel.
The rotating wheel can take the side force (without moving sideways) caused by the unequal resistance when one wheel is blocked by the brake. So the forces are doubled over the 4 wheel, one wheel driven, old tractor.
By the way: it's not impossible making a turn when the diff lock is engaged: I made several turns with the diff lock (unintentionally) still on, with the 5245 when ploughing a wet field. The front wheels have enough traction and sideway resistance to overcome the force of the rear wheels, making them slip, one wheel slips positive, the other slips negative. The turning radius doubles, but it IS possible, if enough weight is on the front wheels.
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Post by JD Kid on Nov 29, 2003 19:43:13 GMT 1
hi ya now this gett's a bit strange ,the feild is this driveing in a line with a 2wd tractor with 1 wheel braked ,i up with the play sofar??ok now this braked wheel is full of mud with no grip on hard clay ie a slick track the driveing wheel is on a good pulling surface and ya have eneff weight to over come any sideways pull from the braked wheel?? are we loaded up at this time?? the tractor not the driver ;)this is a factor we need to know cos a unloaded tractor at 1000 rpm and a tractor pulling at 2400 rpm is going to react diffrently we will also base this on dead flat (i have to guess what happens:) ) be fore i go on am i right with the setting catch ya JD Kid
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Post by Woodbeef on Nov 29, 2003 19:45:48 GMT 1
Pure Hogwash,Doc........
Stop and re-read very slowly what you just wrote.......then put it into the real world!!!
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Post by eppie on Nov 29, 2003 19:47:06 GMT 1
The DEutz story was on a street with some mud on it.
The four wheel tractor with one driven wheel is in the field, but one wheel is driven and the other is freewheeling, as Woodbeef said.
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Post by eppie on Nov 29, 2003 19:50:00 GMT 1
(to Woodbeef) So.. what DID i wrote, that's not fitting in teh so-called real world ??
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Post by Woodbeef on Nov 29, 2003 19:51:22 GMT 1
Oh so now you are saying the wheel that was braked actually skidded on slick mud????Still would not travel straight for very long..... As for your Zetor how much strain did you put on the drive-line to accomplish this feat?
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Post by eppie on Nov 29, 2003 19:52:56 GMT 1
driveline strain is not the subject. i quote myslef here, read it, the post containing this is unedited so i havent added this lately: "On a muddy street i can, sometimes, drive faster when i hit one brake on our Deutz: when one wheel is blocked by the brake, the other will double it's speed. So, when you hit a brake to steer, the rear wheel will run faster than the front wheels, instead of slower." Here, you could read that i said that from the beginning, that it was on a muddy street. I guess you guys were so full of disbelief, that you havent read what i said.... Sorry, but i think it's time to put this thread to bed. As long as your sole purpose is to disagree, without being able to prove anything else that answers the question in the situation, this is leading no where. the two things i said there: #1 when one wheel is braked, the other doubles its speed. I think we have agreed on this. #2 i can drive faster because the friction of the rotating, driven wheel is bigger than the friction of the braked, blocked wheel. Those were the main points in this discussion. I would like to hear exactly WHERE you disagree, because the subject is floating into all directions.
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Post by Woodbeef on Nov 29, 2003 20:04:20 GMT 1
Yup you did write that....but it says steering with the brakes.......not traveling straight ahead with one brake locked!!! Also you stated you have turned with the diff locked by using the front end to power you through the turn,have you not? So how much strain did you exert on the drive-line by pulling off this feat?? Also how much damage was done to the differential at this time?
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Post by eppie on Nov 29, 2003 20:11:52 GMT 1
These are meant as two seprarate statements, both ruling with the same matter. Sorry for not clearing that up. statement: "On a muddy street i can, sometimes, drive faster when i hit one brake on our Deutz:" explanation of cause: "when one wheel is blocked by the brake, the other will double it's speed." This means that the above statement also applies for the 4wd tractor using brakes to steer: "So, when you hit a brake to steer, the rear wheel will run faster than the front wheels, instead of slower." Are we clear now ?
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