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Post by eppie on Oct 25, 2002 20:00:09 GMT 1
Fred:
I think the Czechs will wait a few years with their CVT, and wait till the development of electrical generators and motors is achieving lower weights. Then they will introduce an electrical CVT, just like older Diesel-electro railway locomotives. At this time, this technology is, due to it's weight, restricted to railroad and stationary use, and the lightweight stuff is still too expensive.
Electrical drive is practically maintenance and wear free. Fendt knows/knew this, but it's wiser to let a big industrial do the general development on lightweight electrical motors. The ordinary industry has to bear the development costs, before the smaller agricultural industry can take advantage of it, and start to develop it more specific to tractors.
There's a prototype electro CVT on the prototype section of this page, based on a NH TM tractor. But it's way too heavy, about 7.5 ton, and the tractor is quite long too.
I think when the time has come, our (my) Czech friends will contact Skoda heavy industries, with a wide range of know-how of electrical, nuclear and water energy.
Guys,
could someone explain me what a select-o-speed is??
And what is that SOS on a 6000 ?? Was it just for N.A. markets??
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Post by kenjar on Oct 25, 2002 20:46:35 GMT 1
Renze,
The Selest-O-Speed (SOS for short) was a powershift transmission Ford introduced in 1958. Ten speeds forward and two reverse.I beleive the 901/801 models were the first to use it. It was the only transmission offered on the 6000/Commander. It was optional on Ford tractors, 5000 series and smaller, till 1975. I beleive it was available in the UK also.
It was not noted for its reliability.
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Post by Woodbeef on Oct 25, 2002 20:51:48 GMT 1
Hey Renze,
The Selct O Speed transmission was the first powershift that was developed. Ford brought it out in1958 or so. It had 10 forward speeds with 2 reverse. Great idea,but way to complicated of design!!
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Post by Fred on Oct 25, 2002 22:10:13 GMT 1
Hey Woodbeef
I wondered if they were first. But just remember the generic name today was patented and only the green boys could call it that until patent ran out. Whats the generic name for stepless box going to be. CVT, IVT, Vario etc. Don't believe the green boys will get it this time, but I bet in 20 years their's will have been the first and best:) Yes the SOS was available in UK from 64 to 68.
Renze
I like your reply, give a technology that's several years down the line:) Seriously that idea does have some mileage, or is that kilometreage, just that no one is going to buy a tractor like the existing one, for a start no roof hatch, so no Swedish sales!
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Post by kenjar on Oct 25, 2002 23:40:38 GMT 1
Hi Fred,
No wonder Ford had trouble with the SOS, Woodbeef and I can't seem to even spell it right. Imagine us trying to operate one. ;D
I read some where that John Deere hired the engineer that developed the SOS for Ford. This led to Deere's powershift.
I do beleive the SOS was the first full powershift used in a tractor.
I still think of a CVT as a hydro.
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Post by Woodbeef on Oct 26, 2002 0:08:17 GMT 1
Hey Kenjar,
I heard that story about the Ford Engineer too. Too bad my old buddy Mac is gone now,he sure could tell some stories about the good old days at Ford Tractor Operations!!
Hey Fred,
Technically it is a CVT (Continuosly Variable Transmission) by nature.
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Post by Fred on Oct 26, 2002 0:13:22 GMT 1
Good point WB
I was going to answer it's also IVT but I not going to go at Infinite speed, not even Cart or F1 do that! But then Green = infinitely resourseful!
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Post by Friedhelm on Oct 26, 2002 10:16:14 GMT 1
Yes, the planetary drives had problems. If the tractor is used really hard this appears to be sometimes a weak point.
Low houred tractors are hard to sell? I am looking for 3075 up to 3645 with Dynashift Gearbox. Hours up to 5500 possible. Imported some time ago tractors from finnland.
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Post by eppie on Oct 26, 2002 12:37:23 GMT 1
Fred:
Which tractor did you mean, about roof hatch and the such ?? The orange-red one or that rebuilt electro NH on the prototype page?
Wasn't that electro NH having the operating system board in the cabin roof ?? I suppose you meant that last one.
Today, i was at the contractor my brother works. They are alos forklift truck dealer. There was a "Still" forklift. Because of the way it drove, I asked him if it was a hydrostatic one, a Linde copy. But it was an electrical drive.
You can understand that i promptly asked him about reliability and lifespan of this electric drive. He said it was just crap, the system board often gets toasted.
I think the development has to get on before we actually see on in a tractor.
Somebody, lately asking about the "Linde" badge on the type plate od a CVT/CVX:
Linde is a german forklift brand, which has their patented hydrostatic drive. It uses a drive pedal like the CVX. My brother in law, who works for the Dutch Linde importer, told me that last month, they introduced a new model of this hydrostatic tranny, the first electronic operated version.
I think that Linde (also producing hydraulica for all kinds of industrial applications) let Steyr take the risk of doing the trials, and last month they introduced their co-developed technology on their own products.
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Post by Fred on Oct 26, 2002 12:44:35 GMT 1
Renze
Yeh I was thinking of the NH in s**t b***n with the unit on the roof. Swedish reference was that all tractor cabs in Sweden must have an escape hatch in the roof incase the tractor goes through ice, I think.
Just thought that MF created CVT with multipower in the 1960's, put it in low range going down hill and you'll continously change speed:)
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Post by kenjar on Oct 26, 2002 16:31:28 GMT 1
Friedhelm,
The owner of the 3680, yes that is his main tillage tractor, it gets hard use.
There are alot of lease returns sitting on dealers lots. Sometimes they have to put big discounts to move them.
Fred,
White/Oliver had there own version of the MF MultiPower/CVT, the Over/Under. Down hill in under, sometimes gives a thrilling ride.
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Post by eppie on Oct 26, 2002 20:45:26 GMT 1
These multipowers ar simple designs, with a freewheel and a clutch. I think, in technical view the Zetor multipower is at the same level. It was just two mechanical claw clutches, shifting powerboosted by air. At least this has no freewheel, i think it is way too dangerous in the Czech mountains. Too bad they never offered this option in the Netherlands. It would be nice on the 6718 when i go grass chopping next season...  |
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Post by Fred on Oct 27, 2002 15:02:57 GMT 1
Renze
Its simple do like a nuffield importer mentioned in another thread - build your own gearbox:)
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Post by eppie on Oct 27, 2002 19:47:31 GMT 1
Why build my own??
I'd better buy a retrofit kit. Besides, the nuffield got 5 extra gears, the Zetor already has 10 gears. (but not shiftable under load)
By adding this multipower, the increase of number of speeds will be small (many double speeds) but are able to powershift, and the biggest benefit of the extra speeds is that the gap between 4 and 5 is filled, for heavy haulage. (The step is quite big with 18 m3 of liquid hog manure behind it, for a 66 hp 6718)
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